A timeline and history of men wearing skirts at contra dances

[robehickman]

I've put together a preliminary article on some research into the history of men wearing skirts at contra dances:

https://robehickman.com/history-men-skirts-contra-dance

Assuming that a quoted source that I found in an old Usenet discussion is correct, the wearing of 'gender norm defying' clothing at communal dances could date back to the 1700's. The recent trend though seems to have initially taken hold in the late 1970's to early 1980's, and continued with only a very small number of male dancers wearing skirts up until the mid 1990's, seemingly mainly in the New England region, although I don't have enough data to confirm geographic localisation.

In the mid to late 1990's the practice seems to have taken off much more, and one contra group put out a calendar called 'flirts in skirts' with pictures of male dancers in skirts, and apparently there were also people making leaflets discussing how to handle negative reactions of others. At this point in time negative reactions from dancers seems to have been very common, with one Usenet thread opening with "However, I finally have to bring this up... Where (and fergodsakes why) did this craze of guys wearing skirts start?".

From the early 2000's to today the practice became increasingly accepted. It seems that it was picked up heavily by younger people in the early 2000's and the negativity faded over time. It seems to have always been most common at dance camps / weekends / festivals, less at small local dances.

[Grok]

Reread the article about twirly skirts for contra dances. If fun is the incentive for wearing these, could these skirts become popularized outside of dancing?

[robehickman]

Reread the article about twirly skirts for contra dances. If fun is the incentive for wearing these, could these skirts become popularized outside of dancing?

Full skirts were in fashion for younger women in the 1950's, which as far as I'm aware was a combination of a response to the rationing that was in place during the second world war, and the popularity of Rock and roll music and dancing that was complemented by full skirts. It is conceivable that the same thing could happen among men if a cultural trend were to drive it.

From my own experience, full skirts have a lot of practicality issues outside the context of dance in a dance hall - they very easily fly up in any notable amount of wind. They will also fly up and out just from turning one's body moderately quickly, great for creating spectacle in a dance, but outside that context means that you always need to be aware of what's around you.

[Grok]

An interesting effect during a twirl-top of skirt flares out, but bottom of skirt hangs down vertical to floor. Resembling a cone on top of a cylinder.

I think sometimes this is due to the skirt being made of relatively heavy material, so gravity tends to pull the bottom downward. I wonder if sometimes, though, the fullness is limited by the skirt being relatively narrow, creating resistance to flaring lower down.

[Mouse]

An interesting effect during a twirl-top of skirt flares out, but bottom of skirt hangs down vertical to floor. Resembling a cone on top of a cylinder.

I had that problem when I put a petticoat under a skirt that was too short.

To maintain the correct shape in a twirl, I would say the minimum would be a full circle skirt, or at lease a skirt with the ratio of material increasing in a proportion to make a cone shape from the waist.

[STEVIE]

Forget the science.
Skirts flare while dancing to display shapely legs.
Achieve that, job done.
As for history there has always been LGBTQ gender defiant individuals and communities with nothing to do with dancing contra or whatever.
We only got totally hung up on the norms in recent times and that is despite draconian sumptuary laws too.
Steve.

[robehickman]

An interesting effect during a twirl-top of skirt flares out, but bottom of skirt hangs down vertical to floor. Resembling a cone on top of a cylinder.

I think sometimes this is due to the skirt being made of relatively heavy material, so gravity tends to pull the bottom downward. I wonder if sometimes, though, the fullness is limited by the skirt being relatively narrow, creating resistance to flaring lower down.

What you're describing is the flare profile of a long skirt formed from a rectangle of fabric that has been gathered or pleated to the waist. Circle and full godet skirts will fly out fully horizontally in a fast enough twirl. You can read about the best kinds of skirts for dancing in another article I wrote:

https://robehickman.com/gender-neutral- ... tra?vers=5

Forget the science.
Skirts flare while dancing to display shapely legs.
Achieve that, job done.
As for history there has always been LGBTQ gender defiant individuals and communities with nothing to do with dancing contra or whatever.
We only got totally hung up on the norms in recent times and that is despite draconian sumptuary laws too.
Steve.

The point about universal skirt wearing among (American) contra dancers is that it is not driven by wish to express gender in most cases. The article that I linked in the OP includes a large number of quotes from people stating that they are wearing a skirt because skirts are fun to dance in, and I have considerably more quotes stating the same thing that were not included or the article would be enormous. There is a peer-reviewed article from 2004 that also states the same.

[STEVIE]

Assuming that a quoted source that I found in an old Usenet discussion is correct, the wearing of 'gender norm defying' clothing at communal dances could date back to the 1700's.

The point about universal skirt wearing among (American) contra dancers is that it is not driven by wish to express gender in most cases.

I raised the LGBTQ point on the basis of the first quote RH. "gender norm defying".
With regard to the second one, you're saying that most American contra dancers are not expressing a gender preference by wearing skirts, correct?
Presumably, that includes female dancers and any dancer who wears trousers, what is their preference?
Sure, there's fun to be had dancing in a skirt, but from contra dance floor to the local high street is a very big step.
Steve.

[robehickman]

I raised the LGBTQ point on the basis of the first quote RH. "gender norm defying".
With regard to the second one, you're saying that most American contra dancers are not expressing a gender preference by wearing skirts, correct?
Presumably, that includes female dancers and any dancer who wears trousers, what is their preference?
Sure, there's fun to be had dancing in a skirt, but from contra dance floor to the local high street is a very big step.
Steve.

The intended meaning of 'gender norm defying' was in relation to accepted clothing of the general public at a given point in time vs what people were wearing at dances.

American male contra dancers who are choosing to dance in skirts aren't, in most cases, doing so out of wish to express anything about gender, that's correct. It is backed up by the quotes in my article and considerably more people stating the same which you can find in the linked sources.

Nowadays women can wear prettymuch anything so I don't have much comment on that - numerous women who wear trousers or leggings most of the time wear skirts or dresses for dancing because they are fun and cooler.

I also don't personally care if men dancing in skirts does / does not carry over into what men in the general populous choose to wear. I don't personally have any interest in wearing skirts outside dances at this time of the year as it is too cold.

Having an example of 'men wearing skirts is fully normalised in this niche community', could possibly persuade some people to try it, and studying how it became normalised in said community could give ideas on how to approach normalising it in the general public.

Mainly it just seems to be men discovered that skirts are fun to dance in, others started copying realising the same thing. There was pushback, men ignored pushback and kept doing it, and then people accepted it.

'Skirts are comfortable in hot weather' is possibly an approach that could work for the general public.

[crfriend]

'Skirts are comfortable in hot weather' is possibly an approach that could work for the general public.

Or, how about "skirts are more comfortable than trousers, and worn properly can be vastly warmer than trousers during winter"? That might help do the trick.

It's time we stop over-analysing the problem.

[robehickman]

'Skirts are comfortable in hot weather' is possibly an approach that could work for the general public.

Or, how about "skirts are more comfortable than trousers, and worn properly can be vastly warmer than trousers during winter"? That might help do the trick.

It's time we stop over-analysing the problem.

Makes sense - what kinds of skirts work in the winter?

[crfriend]

[... W]hat kinds of skirts work in the winter?

If one thinks about it for a few minutes one will pretty much automatically come to the conclusion that heavy skirts will be warmer than lightweight ones, and that layers provide additional insulation and hence warmth. Long is better than short, but not so long that one risks getting the hem wet from being in the snow. Petticoats make great layering pieces, and in this case I don't mean the types that dancers wear, but the old-school practical ones that add mass and volume. Keep one's core warm and minimise heat-loss elsewhere and your legs will be fine.

[skirtpettiman]

I find wearing a tiered multilayered petticoat under my denim skirt keeps my legs warm in winter.