What makes a skirt masculine?

[Liam]

I've seen many images of men wearing skirt-like garments, where they were clearly beyond masculine - those guys just looked really cool. And then there's the flip side where they looked like they were trying to appear like a girly-clown or something.

So what do we think, boys? What is the difference that makes it work? In biblical times, all men wore robes, usually tied at the waist. In the 1500's, men wore tunics, and by the 1900's, men were limited to short and long trousers. Why did the women's apparel revolution (good for them) coincide with the limitation of men's apparel? We used to be able to wear what we wanted, now we are stuck with short pants, or long pants. If it is all the same to society (and even if it's not), I would prefer to wear something that is comfortable and useful. And I've seen such clothes are accepted by the general public, but it appears to be accepted only when it is gender appropriate. So, I ask the question: what makes a skirt/robe/tunic masculine?

What do you all think?

[crfriend]

Why did the women's apparel revolution (good for them) coincide with the limitation of men's apparel? We used to be able to wear what we wanted, now we are stuck with short pants, or long pants.

I've seen this attributed to the French Revolution, to the Industrial Revolution, and to Beau Brummel. The French Revolution certainly played a role as once the monarchy, with their excesses, were out of favour nobody wanted to look -- or to aspire to look -- like them. The Industrial Revolution -- with its high-speed machinery -- took a toll on very loose and flowy garments, mainly for safety's sake (although this did not apply to women who wore long skirts and dresses even if working in factory settings with exposed machinery). Beau Brummel? He's the guy who first posited that, "The well dressed man is one who does not stand out in a crowd." (or something very much to that effect) -- which leads to the joke, "Beau Brummel is alive and living in Paris -- but nobody can find him."

If it is all the same to society (and even if it's not), I would prefer to wear something that is comfortable and useful.

This seems to be the male mantra; so long as it's comfortable and useful -- and doesn't attract undue attention -- it's fine. It's also what's gotten us mired in a world of mind-numbing blandness because if one is not wearing something deathly dull one will attract attention. It's a catch-22. Skirts -- and tunics -- can be wonderfully comfortable and practical/useful; however, since they're different they fail when it comes to blending in and being anonymous. If you're a guy in a skirt, you are not anonymous -- you stick out. Deal.

So, I ask the question: what makes a skirt/robe/tunic masculine?

First and foremost, I think the primary determinant is the character and bearing of the guy wearing the garment. If his mannerisms and motions are those of a male, he will look like a guy in a tunic, skirt, or robe; if he's altering those behavioural facets (e.g. using mincing steps, or behaving in a shrinking way) the overall masculine image will be reduced.

[RichardA]

Answering a question with a question
Have clothes got a gender
The only one I can think of is a bra, but looking at some men with "manboobs" I'm not so sure

[JRMILLER]

Richard,
yuck!

As to Liam's question, I will answer his question, that, what makes a skirt masculine...

What "can" make a skirt masculine is something based on accepted garments (past or present) in the culture you are immersed. Don't go overboard on "skirting it up" and it can work. Knee length jeans skirts are a case in point, they look like shorts. Eddie Bauer tends to make clothing which is masculine in appearance for women and men. I have a couple of their skirts and unless you look real close, they look like cargo shorts.

Variations on kilts work because kilts are generally accepted and most people don't know a real kilt from a skirt. To add to the confusion, Utilikilts first introduced cargo-short looking plain color kilts. These generally work because they have guy colors, cargo pockets and a kilt appearance.

In our Western culture, a floral skirt is a hard sell for a masculine look. However, in the South Pacific, it would work quite well. In Saudi Arabia, you might get a finger cut-off for wearing any kind of skirt as a guy. However, you can wear what otherwise is a long dress (caftan) and be completely accepted. Go figure....

Point is, it's relative.

I do make an effort to make choices which are a reasonable deviation from the norm (stay within the first standard deviation). Thus, I generally tend toward kilts and skirts with colors which are normal for guys, but still skirts. I do have some really off the wall florals which would probably be "acceptable" in a shirt (imagine that), but not in a skirt. All that fuss over one little letter --

I also go with the one item rule, that is, skirt, but otherwise normal guy clothes.

At this stage of my development, arrayed in that manner, I can walk tall and not feel too odd (usually). Sometimes I do, but I mentally work on it and get my thinking balanced out.

And that's all I got to say about that!

[couyalair]

This is quite subjective. It is all in the mind.
In my mind, a Scottish kilt is a 100% masculine skirt; I'll go anywhere wearing one, because I was brought up think of a kilt as man's garment.
A non-tartan wrap-round is 95%; I'll go out in one quite happily, but with the feeling that it may not be quite so manly, because I'd never heard of a non-tartan kilt in the past.
I have two plain skirts (no pattern, no frills, dull colour) that I find fairly masculine, though they came from the ladies' section, but because I was not brought up to think of such a garment as being right for a man, I don't wear them far from home (yet).

If I were in Gt Britain, it is likely that anyone seeing me would think similarly:
tartan = 100% masculine;
plain but kilt-shaped = 50 - 95 %;
plain but not kilt-shaped = 5% perhaps;
anything else = 0%.

But I am in Spain where
tartan = feminine, though just about accepted for men by those that know about Scotland;
plain dull bermuda-length = genderless, since most people probably won't noticed that it's not bifurcated.
anything else = feminine (you see more women in skirts here than in the other parts of Europe I am familiar with).
It has beciome quite plain to me that I get more funny looks in tartan than otherwise, so it is quite silly for me to feel reluctant about going out in my knee-length skirts.

If I were in certain parts of Asia, a lunghi would be 100% masculine ... for the natives.
But worn by a foreigner? It would probably raise an eyebrow.

Americans that wear utilikilts claim they are 100% masculine (good publicity campaigns!). For me, they look like any other flared skirt, and when worn below the knee, no more masculine than trousers or jeans (genderless). Women's skirts today are generally longer than knee length (or mini for a very few youngsters).

In other words, there's no single answer to the question.
Wear what you fancy!

Martin

[jeanfor]

For me the combination of top + skirt + socks + shoes makes the man or not. For example I have pinks sweaters that I wear in winter with a pair of jeans or pants. I would not wear them with a skirt. Instead would wear a black or dark color (like blue, navy blue. A nice pair of boots with some nice black socks or dark colors. No white socks unless I am wearing a real kilt with the top that matches accordingly. In general I wear kilts or plaid kilt like skirts. Following those simple rules have made my skirting experience a blast.

[SkirtedViking]

The man himself wearing the garment and the shoes makes it masculine not the inanimate objects.

[straightfairy]

For me, at least, it's the cut, and detailing.
The cut is obviously important. Most men are somewhat less curvy than most women and will therefore have a better fit in straighter designs (at least around the waist and hips) than those designed to emphasise curves. As when women started to wear trousers, this is what distinguishes between mens and ladies trousers and skirts, and dresses/robes.

Most of the 'details' and accessories on women's skirts are there to make the item more feminine; flowery bits, lace, frilly bits, floral designs. I tend to look for skirts without any of these.
A fundamental part of this is pockets - the vast majority of skirts don't have them, whereas virtually all mens trousers have at least 4, regardless of function. Men's pockets are larger, for larger hands and items, and tend not to have much detailing on them.

My last three purchases have no feminine detailing, 4-5 decent size pockets (they're all denim), belt loops to take a man's belt, fly/button front, and one has a right handed fly. This is why i bought them despite parlous finances.

[SkirtedViking]

For me, at least, it's the cut, and detailing.
The cut is obviously important. Most men are somewhat less curvy than most women and will therefore have a better fit in straighter designs (at least around the waist and hips) than those designed to emphasise curves. As when women started to wear trousers, this is what distinguishes between mens and ladies trousers and skirts, and dresses/robes.

Most of the 'details' and accessories on women's skirts are there to make the item more feminine; flowery bits, lace, frilly bits, floral designs. I tend to look for skirts without any of these.
A fundamental part of this is pockets - the vast majority of skirts don't have them, whereas virtually all mens trousers have at least 4, regardless of function. Men's pockets are larger, for larger hands and items, and tend not to have much detailing on them.

I've seen many women's trousers - they are not that different.Most women,especially after 40 years of age tend to be less curvy than a normal man.Many cultures,unfortunately not ours, had male fashions well ornamented.

[Since1982]

Gee thanks Richard, for the sweaty fellow picture. I couldn't have possibly gone my entire life without seeing it......welllll Yes, I could have.

[Pythos]

Before tackling the OP, I will relate to my style that I wear.

At my work, and in the past for college and out and about, I wear an outfit style that consists of leggings, usually black, nice boots or shoes, long shirt or sweater, usually secured at the waist by a belt, and some kind of shirt or jacket over top left open.

This look is a tunic look so I have been told.

Lately I have been compared to swashbuckler, or court jester, or minstrel. Now, notice something about those terms (court jester was spoken by a fellow well taught in mideval times, and he was applying no insult. A little known thing of the court Jester is that he was the most trusted, and quite a powerful figure in the king's court. He was the only one that could outright insult the king with a little joke, as a way to tell the king "my dear sir, your actions are that of an idiot".) Those terms are all from older times.

But my outfits are hardly of the older style. The leggings are spandex, a material that could only be dreamed of in older times, the shirts and sweaters are also of a material that is modern. Effectively what I have done is blend modern styling with the past. However, it is a look that is more accepted on the female body.

Why is this though? I can pull the look off, so why can't other men.

Fear.

That is the key. fear.

In my style one's legs and at times butt are quite visible, and for many men that is frightening. Not sure why. We have those features too. Why do we hide them?

Culture? The idea that men are practical, and a means of production?

I truly cannot answer this without Bias. I love what I wear, and want to wear it when ever I want. How many men out there can say that about the clothing styles they wear?

Now, as far as what makes a skirt masculine.

Frankly I think ANY skirt that is plain, one color and with little embelishment can be "manly" when worn by a male. This is because skirts lack an in seam. Therefore there is no "fit" issues. I own not one "male" skirt, yet they all fit me perfectly, with one exception being my leather skirt that has a bit more space for hips. My Chinese gown is fitted for my male body, I have tried doing a full fem shot in this thing, and it was nearly impossible to get on due to the way the gown had been pulled in to follow my male build opposed to my "feminized" form.

All in all, it depends on the wearer and their attitude, along with the accessories and other clothing items.

It is funny, in a music style I like one can tell which of the artists are "manly" and which ones truly are trans. Hizaki, the guitarist for a band called Versailles can LOOK very very feminine....then he speaks. LOL. Does juxtaposition come to mind (cute little girl...DEEP VOICE) He moves quite masculine if a bit more graceful, and he can shred on a guitar above most. Another artist, Mana, does such an incredible blend of male and female in both looks and movement. Then there is Kaya. Now this individual is a trans, and does it impeccably if a bit over the top. It is quite unbelievable he is a he. Scary in ways. Hizaki's and Kaya's outfits are much the same, but is is very clear Hizaki is a wolf in sheep's clothing:)

My point with the last paragraph was to illustrate how one's attitude is just as important as the clothing styles worn.

In some of my pics I can look very fem...but this is only appearance, my mannerisms, movements, and voice are a dead giveaway. My movements are a tini bit more refined, but not much. Compared to a real female, I am an absolute joke. Which for me is fine. Looking full on fem is fun, but I would far prefer just having an open and free choice in the clothing styles I wish to wear with no fear of my job getting affected by the opinions of some closed minded twerp.

Here is a pic from the thread I referred to.
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww10 ... CF0666.jpg

Now, not to step on anyone's toes here, this is me in the short back zip skirt....but in fem mode.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/434 ... 4f93c4.jpg
With only the adding of some stuff does the skirt become "feminine". Compare the two shots (the one from the above link, and this one), and you may get an idea of what I think makes a skirt "masculine" In both styles I am wearing hose, and skirt. But there are some differences in the rest of the outfit, that change the overall look. Frankly I think the line between masculine and feminine is very thin, and really should not matter as much as it does.

[Since1982]

Pythos, if you have a library near where you live, stop in and look up World Book Encyclopedia, then get the D book, go to the "Dress" section, and look up "tunic". The original tunics were a knee length A-line skirt worn originally under a Roman's Toga.

I lived in that book when I was a boy having my mother sew skirted mens/boys garments for me. I lived in tunics around the house.

[Mindermast]

This is a very interesting subject. I think, I can tell fairly well, if a skirt suits a particular man well or not, but I can't provide clear rules. But whenever I have the chance to see a man in "wrong" clothes, I try to find out, why he looks good or not. On the following website is a man in a traditional Indian women's dress - sari and blouse: http://sareedreams.com/2010/04/wordless ... man-saree/ I don't think, he could look any better in a business suit, a very good example how freestyle can work, even if you cover his face. I think, it is 50% the clothes and 50% the wearers attitude. Of course, certain styles enhance the female or male body, and I am sure, there are a few simple rules, but I don't know them yet. I'll report back, as soon as I know more.

[JohnH]

I don't worry if a garment is feminine or masculine. The question is does it look good on the wearer? If yes, then end of discussion!

After all women don't worry too much about garments looking too masculine on them. Only men have to be so fragile in their egos to worry so much about something looking too feminine.

John

[SkirtedViking]

I don't worry if a garment is feminine or masculine. The question is does it look good on the wearer? If yes, then end of discussion!

After all women don't worry too much about garments looking too masculine on them. Only men have to be so fragile in their egos to worry so much about something looking too feminine.

John

Well said,mate!But there is a reason for that...boys are brought up in machismo,while women do not have similar philosophy to damage them in terms of expression.Machismo theory is connected and bonded to heterosexuality,that is why it is easier for gays not to look...what was called...masculine.