How do you translate sizes given in terms of a woman's body?

[Skirt Chaser]

Does anybody have advice for picking a size of skirt assumed for a women to a male frame? After pointing out Kilted John's corduroy skirt find to Quiet Man last week I helped take my husband's waist measurement and then he ordered. Well, when it arrived last night he tried on and it was way too big. I may have measured too high but even so we were so way off. He got a size 20 based on the size chart. If he had told me what size he was going to order I could have helped him narrow it town to size 16 or maybe 14. Although I don't know much about sizing at least I know I fit 18 or 16 and that he's smaller than me.

He taught me some of the problems he encounters with sizing and that ordering by the hip size leads to a tight waist size due to difference in male and female body shapes. Clearly applying his waist size to the waist size in the Eddie Bauer chart didn't get a helpful size either. Any tips or experience you can share, guys? We are going to return this skirt and get another one but it would be nice if we can do more than guess which one to ask for in return.

As a total aside the skirt design is nice looking but I'm not a fan of corduroy and Quiet Man got the sage color which looks to me like it has been sitting in a puddle of algae. He likes it though and that's what matters, he certainly is kindly reserved about passing judgements on the stuff I wear.

Edited to condense links now that I know how

[AMM]

Does anybody have advice for picking a size of skirt assumed for a women to a male frame? After pointing out Kilted John's corduroy skirt find to Quiet Man last week I helped take my husband's waist measurement and then he ordered.

If you're lucky, you can get the relevant measurements (such as waist size or length) on-line or by calling Customer Service. Not all on-line retailers have the information available, though.

Otherwise, you just have to make a guess and if it doesn't fit, send it back for a smaller or large size.

I understand that women have the same problem -- my ex-wife wore anywhere from a size 12 to a size 20, depending on the cut and the manufacturer's idea of what the size numbers mean.

For that matter, I had the same problem with Utilikilts, even though you specify the length and waist size.

[SkirtDude]

Deleted.

[mountain-mug]

Hi, Skirt Chaser,

I really like that Eddie Bauer skirt, in fact I tried it on a couple of months ago, but being a cheap SOB, I thought I'd wait until it was on sale! Bad move! When I got wind of the sale, my size was gone. I guess buying skirts at the local thrifts has spoiled me, and I hardly ever pay full retail. That said, I do have some other Eddie Bauer skirts and find their sizing way off from what actually works. According to the size chart, with a 34" or so waist, I'd wear an XL, or 16-18. In fact a size 10 fits quite well, even a tad large in the waist. I don't know if this will help much, but it seems subtracting 5" from my waist size gives a pretty good starting point. And it isn't even Eddie Bauer, most of what I have is size 10. Good luck with the purchase!

[Inertia]

Another thing that I have noticed is that women's sizes are really inconsistent between brands. A Liz Claybourn size 18 may fit me great while another brand is like wearing a potato sack.

That said I really wish that the clothing manufacturers would sell clothing based on physical dimensions rather than "sizes"

Oh, I certainly agree with you, SkirtDude! You have my sympathy -- which doesn't help, but there it is. One of the things I hate about buying clothes is the need to try on thirty garments just to find two that fit -- even when they're all marked with the same size. Do men find the same problem, when trying to get men's clothes that fit?

Cheers,

Inertia

[crfriend]

Do men find the same problem, when trying to get men's clothes that fit?

Men, at least in the US (I can't say with any certainty about the rest of the planet), have it pretty easy. "Sizes" are given in inches, typically (for trousers) waist and inseam, and for jackets/sport-coats chest.

Of course the above yields problems for blokes that have "dimensional variances" from the "average", but unless one is purchasing a bespoke garment, there's enough "slop" built in so that the garment will mostly "fit" (for varying definitions of "fit").

Fortunately, guys don't have to deal with the vagaries of "sizing", much less "vanity sizing", that our sisters do. I've never managed to get my head around the notion of "dress size" (and its offspring sizes for skirts and most other things).

I know from practical experience that I (that is, "me") am roughly a "size 14", even though none of the listed dimensions actually match up properly. To put that in "guy terms", I have a roughly 38-inch waist (it varies according to how much food/beer I have "on board") and a 34-inch inseam (it used to be 36 inches, but I'm not quite the bloke I used to be); this is coupled to an overall height of 6-foot-4-inches. When it comes to skirts, I can pick between "tall" and "women's" sizes depending on the overall length I want (I suppose I could go to "petite" if I wanted something really short).

At the moment, I'm wearing a size 14 "tall" long skirt and it comes to just ever so slightly above my ankles; the designer laid the skirt out to fall at a woman's ankles when the wearer would be wearing moderate heels. It's a great skirt, although it's one that I only occasionally wear; it was nice this evening, though, because it's really cold tonight.

So, it would seem that for the average bloke the oft-offered advice of carrying a string equal to one's (waist) circumference and then halving that as a coarse measurement of waist-on-hanger is likely wise.

With some luck, and I'm not holding out much hope for this, sizes might someday be provided in proper 3-D measurements that specify (1) the waist size in either inches or centimetres, (2) the drop from waist to hip in the same units, (3) the circumference of the hips, and (4) the "outseam" (overall length) measurement. That'd allow everybody to understand -- at a glance -- how an article would fit. As I say, though, I don't hold out much hope for that.

[Inertia]

It's a lovely thought, though. The whole "dress size" concept is as variable as the manufacturer's particular mood that day, or so it seems. Add to this the fact that many of us are one size above the waist, and quite a different size below, very few women being in the mould of the ideally-proportioned figure (whatever that's supposed to be nowadays), and the size ticket on a garment is mostly useless except as a rough guide.

It's interesting to me that men's garments generally show at least some measurements (my husband buys all his own clothes, usually by getting the Sales Guy in his favourite shop to pull things off racks for him, all of which miraculously fit because the Sales Guy has an experienced eye). I could wish these things were listed for women, as I have the constant problem of "size 8" fitting perfectly in certain places and being too small in others, whereas "size 10" is either tent-like, or weirdly bulging in other spots and too small in others, or apparently proportioned for an elk.

Tell me, assuming you wear tights, do you (or any of you other guys who wear tights in winter) find that tights fit best if you buy the next size up from where you ought to be according to the proportional size chart? Or is this just a female thing?

Cheers,

Inertia

[Skirt Chaser]

You are so right about sizing being off for everybody, Inertia. Makes you wonder if odd number sizes are available somewhere when you are stuck in between two bad choices. Mountain-mug, subtract five might be on to something for a better rough estimate. I measured 38 inches (but probably should have gone a bit under my husband's belly instead of over it) which says size 20 on the Eddie Bauer chart but that was so off even my 43 inch waist was wallowing around in the 20. I'd say their size suggestion going by waist alone was 8 to 10 inches too big. Perhaps their size chart was never updated to newer vanity sizes and a size 20 from years ago might fit a 38 inch waist.

I realize how lucky I am to do my shopping in person. Routinely I bring two or three sizes of the same item into the dressing room due to size variance. Now I'm going to start doing that half waist size string trick too!

[Brandy]

Interesting to see how everyone else has the same problem. My solution was when I finally found a skirt that fit I fastened the waist band laid skirt on the bed back side up. Carefully spread the waist band and at least the top half of the skirt. The first thing to do is pay attention to the ratio of waist to hip. Then I measure, waist and seat to get the hip size. With the skirt laid out on the bed the measurements are exactly half, so a waist band measurement of 18" equals 36" inch wasit. A seat measurement of 22" will be hips of 44".

My favorite style skirt is a Jones of NY Trumpet it will be size 14 or 16 the waist will be around 36" on the hanger the waist will measure 17.5"-18" the seat will measure aprox 21.5" for hip/butt of 43". Every thing will vary depending the final cut and type of fabric.

The secret?? I carry a tape measure with me.

-- Brandy

[AMM]

The secret?? I carry a tape measure with me.

I tried using a tape measure in a women's clothing store one time, and the manager came over and did his best to make me feel most unwelcome. Someone later told me that the manager probably thought I was trying to copy their designs. (As if I would have bothered!)

I never went back, and didn't consider it any loss, as I was hard put to find anything in the store that I didn't think was hideous. (The one style of skirt that I did sort of like I found later at another store for 1/6 the price, and I later decided that that style doesn't look good on me.)

I don't think thrift stores would care.

[SkirtDude]

Deleted.

[Sasquatch]

I've found that fitting women's sizes is often a matter of trial and error. This is especially true for the cheaper imported clothing which is almost always smaller than stated size. Generally Eddie Bauer clothing is "relaxed fit" for both comfort and for reducing returns; I suspect most returns are because the garment was too small. They may also make things a bit bigger when they don't offer the Plus size range. That's why i like their stuff. BTW that is a great skirt...I especially like the Coccoa color for fall/winter wear.

Sasq

[Sasquatch]

I've found that fitting women's sizes is often a matter of trial and error. This is especially true for the cheaper imported clothing which is almost always smaller than stated size.
Sasq

An aside to my own post.

I've often wondered if the Asians who sew this cheap clothing are just skimping on fabric or if they simply can't believe Americans could actually be so big?

sasq

[Inertia]

[quote="Sasquatch"]I've often wondered if the Asians who sew this cheap clothing are just skimping on fabric or if they simply can't believe Americans could actually be so big?

I know that when I've bought clothing for non-Asian friends at Chinese clothing stores, the clerks have had to translate the Chinese clothing's interpretation of the given size into what the equivalent it would be to fit a non-Chinese person. This leads me to believe that the Asian factories will receive an order for, say, skirts in "size 10", and make what they know as a size 10 skirt, which ought to be re-labelled for other countries as, say, size 6 or 8, but isn't. That's my theory, which is mine.

Cheers,

Inertia

[r.m.anderson]

Inertia:
You might have something there.
Strange how womens sizes are vanity sized i.e. Go to an Express womens store and
observe that the misses sizes begin at 00 or 0 and top out at 12. They formerly were
2-14. Even though JCPenney and Kohls don't have a size 0 (at least not that I am aware
of) their sizing leaves much to be desired. And other stores it is pretty much the same
thing. Bring a tape measure and if it is close take it to the fitting room for the final proof.
Also something else very strange for foreign made womens clothing especially from
the orient (Taiwan ROC; China; Malaysia; Viet Nam etc.) when buying a top; blouse;
shirt or jacket the sleeve length is about 2-3 inches shorter than the same design as
the mens. Do women have shorter arms than men? I have watched a clothing manufacturer
take a bolt of cloth and rotate every which way to get the most material used with little
or no scrap waste. And whoa be to the first time you wash your new found treasure.
Use the wrong wash cycle or water temperature and even if it is not suppose to shrink
well there will be trouble in river city. Maybe the fabric will not shrink but with cheap
thread and single stitching where double is required; a short or should that be very short
life use will occur - but then maybe that is how the clothing is made so cheap other than
with slave labor enterprising. You do pay more for quality clothing but it is not an assurance
that it is going to last for awhile. I make it a policy to wash and wear any items I buy
in a very short period of time to get any snags or problem areas to surface while I can still
return the item under an implied warranty.
rm