Short Skirts and Comfort

[Departed Member]

Here is the shot that I posted earlier. I think it got lost during the migration to the new software.

Once again, I emphasize that I'm posting this picture to emphasize how important it is to sit properly in a skirt, especially a short one like I was wearing. I'm doing this to share the embarassing lesson I learned, not because I'm trying to be weird of perverted.

You can read my earlier posts to get the message: cross your legs!!

John

[david30101]

Nothing perverted about that..Women sit like that all time and they do it for attention.

[Departed Member]

Yes, some women do sit provocatively on purpose, and perhaps some of us do too. It's not my style, however. I emphasized what I did because a couple of the people at this site responded to the picture in a negative and hateful way. I want them to know exactly where I'm coming from so that future comments from them will be constructive and proper.

Have a look at the entire thread, and you'll see what I mean.

Regards, John

[ChristopherJ]

Well, as I have said before, your post - with photo - had a positive effect on me John, because I had been too complacent about my posture etc. while sitting down in a skirt. By that, I don't mean that I sit legs spread apart - as if I was wearing trousers! But rather, I had simply not paid enough attention to what other people could see of me - even if I could not see it myself.

An obvious issue is illustrated by the photo that you posted. I often sit like that - with legs close together - and I had thought that I was being completely modest. But I now am aware that this may not be the case and I almost always make a point now of crossing my legs if there are people directly in front of me who may get an upskirt view.

In considering this issue, I also realised that - contrary to what I had previously thought - when I am sat down at a table - with legs under the table and close together as per normal - a person sat some way away may nevertheless still be able to see straight up my skirt. Again, I am now more concious of this possibility and if I have any doubts, I cross my legs.

I'm not worried about people seeing my underwear (I usually have tights or leggings on on top of that anyhow). I really don't care about that - for myself. But what I do care about is making other people feel embarassed or uncomfortable. I don't want that - and so I am willing to take a little extra care in my own posture etc. to make sure that I do all that I can to help people feel at ease with me - in a skirt.

It was your photograph that first made me aware of how careful I needed to be - so it was very useful for me in that respect.

[mk3]

The first time I really noticed a girl setting in a skirt with her legs more apart than together was in a history class. We were setting across from each other and she wore skirts 3 days a week or so and at times I could imagine it just got very difficult to set for an hour with her legs crossed, so I don't think she cared at all that everyone saw a peek of the white. I stared of course, but I think she got used to the idea. Some girls just have a much tougher time crossing their legs than others.

But I've also seen younger girls setting with their legs close together and knowing that their parents have told them how to sit with a skirt or dress on. Which is kind of funny when I see it because I think " Wow, social training at such an early age". But if you're going to get in a manual car, you have to learn to drive stick effectively before you even think about moving (analogy.)

[AMM]

...But I've also seen younger girls setting with their legs close together and knowing that their parents have told them how to sit with a skirt or dress on. Which is kind of funny when I see it because I think " Wow, social training at such an early age". But if you're going to get in a manual car, you have to learn to drive stick effectively before you even think about moving (analogy.)

I'm not sure I want to think too much about your analogy

But as for "at such an early age," I think most social training starts at a very early age. It's not just keeping your legs together when in a skirt. Little children (under 6, for instance) have little idea of what it is acceptable to show or not show in public, or even an idea of public vs. private. They usually have to be reminded over and over again that they shouldn't drop their trousers or shorts anywhere except in their bedroom or a bathroom, and little girls wearing dresses have to be persistently reminded that lifting their skirt is not acceptable, however much fun it is, or however much they want to show off, say, their underwear with the cute horsies. The same goes for all social training: it starts pretty much as soon as they're able to understand which concrete behavior you're telling them not to do.

Note that there are alternatives to holding your knees together: crossing your legs (while holding the calves together) will do it. (The male version of crossed legs -- with the calf on top of the other knee -- doesn't work.)

Or you can wear flesh-colored underwear, so that people can't tell what they're seeing.

Or you can wear a longer skirt, so the hem is below the knee even when sitting.

Or you can wear a fuller skirt, so the front falls between the legs. When I wear a kilt, I wear a kind of half-slip which has a triangular insert in front, so it falls between my legs when I sit.

Unfortunately, the kind of skirt apparently favored by most of the men here -- a straight, above-the-knee skirt -- is the style which most requires care in sitting.

-- AMM

[ChristopherJ]

Note that there are alternatives to holding your knees together: crossing your legs (while holding the calves together) will do it. (The male version of crossed legs -- with the calf on top of the other knee -- doesn't work.)

I don't understand that AMM. Can you explain it again for me?

BTW - where can I get some decent underwear with cute horsies on? I like the sound of that.

[The Satirist]

Here is the shot that I posted earlier. I think it got lost during the migration to the new software.

Once again, I emphasize that I'm posting this picture to emphasize how important it is to sit properly in a skirt, especially a short one like I was wearing. I'm doing this to share the embarassing lesson I learned, not because I'm trying to be weird of perverted.

You can read my earlier posts to get the message: cross your legs!!

John

[A portion of this post has been deleted by the Master Barista because it violated the board's policies and was poised to start a flame war.]

I'm starting to think that this board is beginning to turn into something of which I would rather not be a part. What I really don't understand is why it is still being allowed. Why are the other members being so soft on this? Is it in the name of tolerance? This used to be a "family friendly" place, but it's turning into a place for transvestites and flashers.

[Milfmog]

This used to be a "family friendly" place, but it's turning into a place for transvestites and flashers.

I don't regard myself as either of the above, but still feel very "at home" here. The original post by John, with the picture that got two forum members worked up, was relevant to the subject of skirts and should serve as a reminder that careless deportment can have unintended consequences (particularly with higher hemlines).

The photograph that apparently caused offence shows far less anatomy than is on display on any beach on a sunny day; what's the problem?

Have fun,


Ian. (Not looking for a flame war, just offering an opinion.)

[The Satirist]

The photograph that apparently caused offence shows far less anatomy than is on display on any beach on a sunny day; what's the problem?

We're not on a beach. If the people who seem to have taken over this forum can't see the problem, or worse yet, enjoy looking at photos of men flashing their undies, then I have obviously have not evolved in the same direction that this forum has.

Add to the number of men who have left this forum, one more, since I am obviously NOT of the same mindset as the rest of you "tolerant people".

Have fun turning this board into another semi-pornographic exhibitionist's forum that makes people think that men who wear skirts are perverts to be shunned.

I'm out of here!

I think I'll throw away or sell all my kilts and skirts.

[AMM]

Note that there are alternatives to holding your knees together: crossing your legs (while holding the calves together) will do it. (The male version of crossed legs -- with the calf on top of the other knee -- doesn't work.)

I don't understand that AMM. Can you explain it again for me?

The traditional feminine way of crossing the legs involves having one thigh on top of the other and the calves parallel. An alternative involves just crossing the calves but keeping them as parallel as possible. Both are designed to keep the knees together, so they're really just variants of "keep your knees together."

The traditional male version of crossing the legs involves putting one ankle on top of the other knee. If you try this, you'll see that the calves are perpendicular to one another and your legs are somewhat spread. This does not hide anything.

BTW - where can I get some decent underwear with cute horsies on? I like the sound of that.

What's your size in toddler sizes?

-- AMM

[Departed Member]

If the people who seem to have taken over this forum can't see the problem, or worse yet, enjoy looking at photos of men flashing their undies, then I have obviously have not evolved in the same direction that this forum has.

Add to the number of men who have left this forum, one more, since I am obviously NOT of the same mindset as the rest of you "tolerant people".

Have fun turning this board into another semi-pornographic exhibitionist's forum that makes people think that men who wear skirts are perverts to be shunned.

I'm out of here!

I think I'll throw away or sell all my kilts and skirts.

By all means be offensive to the majority of contributers here, if that's how you get your 'kicks', Mr Satirist! I don't care for the recent picture display, either. However, it's NOT vaguely 'pornographic' - just rather sad and certainly lacking in imagination, skirt-wise. By all means, discard the clothing that you now, apparently, find 'offends' you. This forum is not 'evolving' into any 'pervert's paradise', and hasn't been 'taken over' by them, either. Yeah, sure, one bloke seemed to have a fetish for flaunting his underwear - how long did he last, eh? Come on, leave if you must, but for Pete's sake, GROW UP!

[AMM]

...If the people who seem to have taken over this forum can't see the problem, or worse yet, enjoy looking at photos of men flashing their undies, then I have obviously have not evolved in the same direction that this forum has....

I have to say that I agree with The Satirist here, even if I might say it differently.

I think the photo on this thread is on the borderline of what I feel comfortable with. It's arguably justifiable as an object lesson, though I don't see why it needed to be reposted. And I think that the point could have been made without any photo at all.

But there are a few threads elsewhere at this site which are just someone showing off his skimpy clothing, and I think it is well over the line. One poster even states that the photos were made for his girlfriend to get off on. That is not what I come here for.

For me, the real value of this forum is discussion of and support for the wearing of kilts and skirts in public. My long-term wish is to come up with a personal style that includes some clothing elements that are considered "feminine" (such as skirts) in a way that does not put people off, and to find ways to encourage the people around me to accept this. Quite frankly, some of the stuff I have seen recently is the best argument I can think of against fashion freedom.

Moreover, the argument "it's no more than what you'd see on a beach" is just plain ignoring the communication aspect of clothing. If you don't understand why walking around with your underwear showing is more offensive than a skimpy bathing suit, who's going to listen to you when you preach about how skirts should be OK for men? You might find people seeing you as just another crank -- or just another mentally ill person.

I'd like us to consider adding to the guidelines a guideline for acceptable photos. Maybe something like that people should be dressed in a way that would (or should) be acceptable at, say, the local public library.

I'm going to start a thread in the "Changes at the Cafe" section on this.

-- AMM

[crfriend]

...If the people who seem to have taken over this forum can't see the problem, or worse yet, enjoy looking at photos of men flashing their undies, then I have obviously have not evolved in the same direction that this forum has....

I have to say that I agree with The Satirist here, even if I might say it differently.

I think the photo on this thread is on the borderline of what I feel comfortable with. It's arguably justifiable as an object lesson, though I don't see why it needed to be reposted. And I think that the point could have been made without any photo at all.

But there are a few threads elsewhere at this site which are just someone showing off his skimpy clothing, and I think it is well over the line. One poster even states that the photos were made for his girlfriend to get off on. That is not what I come here for.

Both Satirist and AMM make very salient points here; some of the imagery has recently been a bit "over the top" (to put it mildly).

Why is this bad? Well, it's bad on a number of levels, not least of which are ones that would tend to bring scorn on the notion of men wearing skirted garments. Face it, being on the "cutting edge", we're going to get held to very high standards for our appearance -- and flashing just does not serve us well. Hell, it doesn't even serve Brittany Spears well, and she's allowed to get away with it; we'd get pilloried for it (or at the very least, arrested).

If we're to be held to higher standards, it means that we must adhere to those standards very carefully -- almost religiously. I'm not saying that we cannot construct looks that are uniquely "us", I'm saying that we cannot cross the bounds of taste -- universally understood taste, at that -- by making spectacles of ourselves. Exhibitionism doesn't have a place in this millieu; this is serious business. If I'm going to be perceived as an exhibitionistic freak every time I'm see in public in a skirt I'll give it up; it's not worth the damage that it might do to my reputation.

[Departed Member]

Hi All,

Thanks for all of the comments. Just an additional suggestion for how to avoid inappropriate views when sitting in a short skirt:

When we first sit down, it's not yet possible to cross our legs. Once we're settled in of course, we can cross them and be confident, but what about the few seconds or so beforehand?

Placing something our our laps, just below the hemline, is a good way to maintain proper deportment. Once settled, we can cross our legs and be on our way. Just folding our hands and placing them in our laps at the hemline will do the trick. Women do this all the time, and it actually looks very proper and dignified, at least in my opinion. If you wear pantyhose, be careful not to snag them and start a run. I've made that mistake a few times...oh well.

We can keep whatever we're using on our laps for as long as necessary, if for some reason it's not possible to cross our legs right away. I find this to be very helpful.

As for those who have expressed a desire to leave the forum because of this thread, I hope they will reconsider and stay with us. Often it takes time to understand different points of view, and initial reactions are not always the most thorough and complete.

I suggest that we reach out to these two folks and offer to help them understand and perceive this situation in a light similar to ours.

Guys...are you there?

John