Hmm, Long time no post.
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Bravehearts.us
- Member Extraordinaire
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 9:12 pm
I had a guy try to pick a fight with me one day while I was on the freeway on my motorcycle. You know the kind…riding my butt, trying to push me off the road. Yes, I wanted to see him in the ditch; put a bullet in the side of his car, etc. but I wasn’t fool enough to get in a fight with him while on the freeway going 60 and on my motorcycle. Better to get the plate number, follow him home and put a brick through his windshield with a note on it. And if I were in my car, why take the chance of getting someone else involved in our fight, who had nothing to do with it and possibly get them hurt or killed?
I thought capitalisation is generally accepted as optional on forums and blogs--one wants speed! but this is rapidly turning into a free for all. I love it. let's start a be rude to everyone thread. oh, sorry, we already did!
I used to drive sports cars around--ferraris and lotuses--but the joke was always on me, because they had so many mechanical problems and inconveniences, and were so visible you could never get away with being somewhere you shouldn't have been. much, much better to be anonymous! in a downmarket car nobody expects you to drive aggressively, but in London you simply have to assert yourself or you'll arrive feeling like the whole world has elbowed you to one side for an hour and a half. everyone is super-tense in that traffic and you have to make the most of every opportunity to get ahead. there's nothing wrong with that; in heavy traffic, all the advantages of high acceleration are negated and a small car with a 1L engine can easily get the better of a merc or porsche.. the owners are always so timid in how they drive and their reactions are so slow. if you don't like it, just take the bus.
yep, sure learned my lesson! pay next to nothing, and enjoy the drive.
I used to drive sports cars around--ferraris and lotuses--but the joke was always on me, because they had so many mechanical problems and inconveniences, and were so visible you could never get away with being somewhere you shouldn't have been. much, much better to be anonymous! in a downmarket car nobody expects you to drive aggressively, but in London you simply have to assert yourself or you'll arrive feeling like the whole world has elbowed you to one side for an hour and a half. everyone is super-tense in that traffic and you have to make the most of every opportunity to get ahead. there's nothing wrong with that; in heavy traffic, all the advantages of high acceleration are negated and a small car with a 1L engine can easily get the better of a merc or porsche.. the owners are always so timid in how they drive and their reactions are so slow. if you don't like it, just take the bus.
yep, sure learned my lesson! pay next to nothing, and enjoy the drive.
The only thing man cannot endure is meaninglessness.
Sounds like a heavy SUV with bull bars would be just the thing to intimidate those Porshes, Mercs.... Maybe there is a reason to drive an SUV in towniain wrote:< SNIP > but in London you simply have to assert yourself or you'll arrive feeling like the whole world has elbowed you to one side for an hour and a half. everyone is super-tense in that traffic and you have to make the most of every opportunity to get ahead. there's nothing wrong with that; in heavy traffic, all the advantages of high acceleration are negated and a small car with a 1L engine can easily get the better of a merc or porsche.. the owners are always so timid in how they drive and their reactions are so slow. < END SNIP>
Sorry Iain, I could not resist it,
Ian (Spelled properly
)Do not argue with idiots; they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Cogito ergo sum - Descartes
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce
Cogito ergo sum - Descartes
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum - Ambrose Bierce
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rogerbigfish
- Active Member
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 4:22 pm
- Location: Devon UK
From what I have read of this topic so far, it seems that cars and how people drive them seems more interesting than the main theme of this site. It is quite a while since I have been temted to post but this one has me going as well.
Ian, you seemed to raised the temperature on this one with you attack on urban drivers of SUV's and to some extent I can understand your reactions, though I completely deplore your attitude to other road users.
I live on Exmoor in Devon, which for those of you who may not be familiar with it, is a wild hilly landscape, sparsely populated and very beautiful. We often have snow in winter and roads can be impassable to all but 4 wheel drives. Tthe main occupation here is farming and natuarally all farmers have a 4 wheel drive. In fact about one in six cars on roads around here would be what you regard a fat arse. But they are absolutely essential to the way of life. Try hauling a stock trailer with 20 sheep in it behind a little family car and see how far you get.
As far as ignorant inconsiderate drivers are concerned we deal with this in our own way. In recent years there have been one or two locals who have driven their Range Rovers much too fast down the narrow lanes and some accidents have resulted. As this is a small community, the individuals are known to all and a few quiet words from neighbours have been enough to sort out this problem. The worst offenders however are those who have recently moved here from large urban areas. They have not yet given up their aggresive urban ways and have not learnt that they will regognised as an individual not just another car on the road. Here you see the driver behind the wheel as a neighbour, not as an obstacle.
The unfortunate fact in the UK now is that the town living majority seems to want to set the agenda and way of life for the whole country without regard for the fact that we do not all share their sense of values. I agree that SUV's as a primary form of transport in urban areas are inappropriate and I wonder why Ian as I assume is a town dweller does not use public transport instead of trying to compete on already over crowded roads, an option that is not available to us in the country.
And yes, I do sometimes visit towns and yes I do so in my 4 wheel drive. There is not alternative.
Roger.
Ian, you seemed to raised the temperature on this one with you attack on urban drivers of SUV's and to some extent I can understand your reactions, though I completely deplore your attitude to other road users.
I live on Exmoor in Devon, which for those of you who may not be familiar with it, is a wild hilly landscape, sparsely populated and very beautiful. We often have snow in winter and roads can be impassable to all but 4 wheel drives. Tthe main occupation here is farming and natuarally all farmers have a 4 wheel drive. In fact about one in six cars on roads around here would be what you regard a fat arse. But they are absolutely essential to the way of life. Try hauling a stock trailer with 20 sheep in it behind a little family car and see how far you get.
As far as ignorant inconsiderate drivers are concerned we deal with this in our own way. In recent years there have been one or two locals who have driven their Range Rovers much too fast down the narrow lanes and some accidents have resulted. As this is a small community, the individuals are known to all and a few quiet words from neighbours have been enough to sort out this problem. The worst offenders however are those who have recently moved here from large urban areas. They have not yet given up their aggresive urban ways and have not learnt that they will regognised as an individual not just another car on the road. Here you see the driver behind the wheel as a neighbour, not as an obstacle.
The unfortunate fact in the UK now is that the town living majority seems to want to set the agenda and way of life for the whole country without regard for the fact that we do not all share their sense of values. I agree that SUV's as a primary form of transport in urban areas are inappropriate and I wonder why Ian as I assume is a town dweller does not use public transport instead of trying to compete on already over crowded roads, an option that is not available to us in the country.
And yes, I do sometimes visit towns and yes I do so in my 4 wheel drive. There is not alternative.
Roger.
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Big and Bashful
- Member Extraordinaire
- Posts: 2921
- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 3:51 pm
- Location: Scottish West Coast
Rogerbigfish,
A very level headed and pertinant response to Een, or Ian or Iain, but I prefer Een today.
You have sparked another thought in my normally vacant mind. In my locality we have had several accidents over the years and a few fatalities. I don't recall any of these accidents being 4 wheel drives or SUVs. It is normally hot heads in hot hatches who forget to go round corners and end up on the beach, or memorably and not to long ago someone with a drink in them who managed to park an Audi halfway up a tree. The rest of the accidents are the aforementioned hot heads trying to overtake, just so they can kill more people when they get it wrong, the occasional biker being wiped out by idiots in tin boxes (nearly always the cars fault but sadly not always) and finally more young hotheads, but in real cars like imprezas (spelling?) who again run out of ability, or who just have too much stupidity for their own good.
One other fatality just sprung to mind, man minding own business on way to work, wiped out completely by a coach driver overtaking an oil tanker on a bend. It just goes to show, if your number is up, and the council have stuck arnco barriers up so you can't take avoiding action, then all the sense and ability in the world ain't going to save you.
I think people like Een are just adding to the problems on the roads, his little vendetta against four wheel drives might not involve him in an accident, but it could easily cause an accident, and I haven't got time for people with that type of mentality.
Cue the response, lights, cameras, Iaiaiain, and Action!
A very level headed and pertinant response to Een, or Ian or Iain, but I prefer Een today.
You have sparked another thought in my normally vacant mind. In my locality we have had several accidents over the years and a few fatalities. I don't recall any of these accidents being 4 wheel drives or SUVs. It is normally hot heads in hot hatches who forget to go round corners and end up on the beach, or memorably and not to long ago someone with a drink in them who managed to park an Audi halfway up a tree. The rest of the accidents are the aforementioned hot heads trying to overtake, just so they can kill more people when they get it wrong, the occasional biker being wiped out by idiots in tin boxes (nearly always the cars fault but sadly not always) and finally more young hotheads, but in real cars like imprezas (spelling?) who again run out of ability, or who just have too much stupidity for their own good.
One other fatality just sprung to mind, man minding own business on way to work, wiped out completely by a coach driver overtaking an oil tanker on a bend. It just goes to show, if your number is up, and the council have stuck arnco barriers up so you can't take avoiding action, then all the sense and ability in the world ain't going to save you.
I think people like Een are just adding to the problems on the roads, his little vendetta against four wheel drives might not involve him in an accident, but it could easily cause an accident, and I haven't got time for people with that type of mentality.
Cue the response, lights, cameras, Iaiaiain, and Action!
I am the God of Hellfire! and I bring you truffles!
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Departed Member
Utter nonsense! No-one here has a vendetta against 'four wheel drives' as such! Please don't try and protect the selfish totally-urban SUV driver by throwing in spurious references to the lunatic 'hot hatch' brigade. Believe it or not, these cretins exist in the urban environment, too! Iain's frustration is shared by an increasing number of drivers, nationwide - be it urban or country, and that includes those who drive SUVs as a matter of necessity.Big and Bashful wrote:I think people like Een are just adding to the problems on the roads, his little vendetta against four wheel drives might not involve him in an accident, but it could easily cause an accident, and I haven't got time for people with that type of mentality.
Why would ensuring that everyone is sticking to road speed be likely to cause an accident? Iain is talking 'motorway', you're using 'country lane' to try and counter your perception of Iain's driving, are you not?
The unfortunate fact in the UK now is that the town living majority seems to want to set the agenda and way of life for the whole country without regard for the fact that we do not all share their sense of values. I agree that SUV's as a primary form of transport in urban areas are inappropriate and I wonder why Ian as I assume is a town dweller does not use public transport instead of trying to compete on already over crowded roads, an option that is not available to us in the country.
There is no way to take kids to school or get to my place of work using publuic transport. It would require so much labour of hiking with small children and navigating roads cluttered up by massive SUVs, whose bumpers are on a level with my children's heads, that I would indeed be endangering their safety. so much for that "helpful" suggestion! Yesterday we crossed a road in front of one of these morbidly obese tractors and I noticed that the top of the stylishly matt black front bumper (oh, well done, design gurus, with your ponytails and red-rimmed glasses!) was actually above the top of my youngest's head. what chance would she stand if one of these anal-driven scrap merchants decided to launch itself into traffic, with a child that size standing in front, waiting to cross the road, completely invisible to little miss hampstead squinting over the wheel?
I think people like Een are just adding to the problems on the roads, his little vendetta against four wheel drives might not involve him in an accident, but it could easily cause an accident, and I haven't got time for people with that type of mentality.
But BABs, you DO indeed seem to have a lot of time! And of course I appreciate it. The simple fact is this, which all your mumbo jumbo can't gloss over: an SUV driver who has no need of a 4-wheel drive monster by virtue of their living in a built up, busy area, (I counted at least 13 on my way to work and not ONE had more than one person in them) has found one more way to stick two fingers up to everyone else on the road. yes, yes, let's all be politically correct and creep like teeny mice away from any confrontation, perhaps suggesting the problem be "looked at" and solutions "evaluated". mumbo jumbo. what a load of nonsense. these people are so obviously cretins who want to be one-up on everyone else. they have no more need of driving a cast iron greenhouse down the road than they need stilts to walk to the corner shop.
one of the big problems the affluent have always had is that they can't drag their mansions with them to show off whenever they go to town. of course, they could buy sports cars but they'd have no idea how to drive them and they know it, and anyway, they want to be above everyone else, not below them. at last the car manufacturers found a way to exploit this loathsome breed, and milk the saps dry, offering them what is actually a low-tech transmission system and not the sophisticated glamour the exterior of these high street yachts would suggest. now porky pig and little wifey can waft about like steamboat drivers and wave to the plebs as they clutter the roads designed for everyone, while blocking out the sun! at last! higher than everyone else! portable wealth! smug grin!
of course the plebs, being easily swayed by whatever they see as the trappings of success, are keen to adorn themselves with this mantle of lunacy, so the manufacturers, sensing an easy kill, make cheapo SUVs for them, too, with similar stylings. Enter Porsche, with their one-up silver cowbarn, so the truly affluent can once again flash a meaningful badge in front of others! Or you could model yourself on royalty, with a Landrover and a pair of green wellies! Go to town, suckers! while johnny yokel jostles with lord and lady muck to get through the doorway of their local SUV dealers, the car company's board of directors must be busting a gut laughing at their gullibility.
ken livingstone agrees, and the city of Paris agrees--they want to ban them completely, as "dangerous caricatures of cars" and I'm afraid just because you live up a tree somewhere and must have an SUV to get there, does not make reasonable the concept of someone wanting a car that is bigger than everyone else's just so they can flash their wad in public.
By all means focus on hostility to me--but this tiny fig leaf of anger can never fully obscure the bloated belly of idiocy which belongs exclusively to these engorged cartoon characters cluttering up our streets.
methinks thou dost protest too much!
There is no way to take kids to school or get to my place of work using publuic transport. It would require so much labour of hiking with small children and navigating roads cluttered up by massive SUVs, whose bumpers are on a level with my children's heads, that I would indeed be endangering their safety. so much for that "helpful" suggestion! Yesterday we crossed a road in front of one of these morbidly obese tractors and I noticed that the top of the stylishly matt black front bumper (oh, well done, design gurus, with your ponytails and red-rimmed glasses!) was actually above the top of my youngest's head. what chance would she stand if one of these anal-driven scrap merchants decided to launch itself into traffic, with a child that size standing in front, waiting to cross the road, completely invisible to little miss hampstead squinting over the wheel?
I think people like Een are just adding to the problems on the roads, his little vendetta against four wheel drives might not involve him in an accident, but it could easily cause an accident, and I haven't got time for people with that type of mentality.
But BABs, you DO indeed seem to have a lot of time! And of course I appreciate it. The simple fact is this, which all your mumbo jumbo can't gloss over: an SUV driver who has no need of a 4-wheel drive monster by virtue of their living in a built up, busy area, (I counted at least 13 on my way to work and not ONE had more than one person in them) has found one more way to stick two fingers up to everyone else on the road. yes, yes, let's all be politically correct and creep like teeny mice away from any confrontation, perhaps suggesting the problem be "looked at" and solutions "evaluated". mumbo jumbo. what a load of nonsense. these people are so obviously cretins who want to be one-up on everyone else. they have no more need of driving a cast iron greenhouse down the road than they need stilts to walk to the corner shop.
one of the big problems the affluent have always had is that they can't drag their mansions with them to show off whenever they go to town. of course, they could buy sports cars but they'd have no idea how to drive them and they know it, and anyway, they want to be above everyone else, not below them. at last the car manufacturers found a way to exploit this loathsome breed, and milk the saps dry, offering them what is actually a low-tech transmission system and not the sophisticated glamour the exterior of these high street yachts would suggest. now porky pig and little wifey can waft about like steamboat drivers and wave to the plebs as they clutter the roads designed for everyone, while blocking out the sun! at last! higher than everyone else! portable wealth! smug grin!
of course the plebs, being easily swayed by whatever they see as the trappings of success, are keen to adorn themselves with this mantle of lunacy, so the manufacturers, sensing an easy kill, make cheapo SUVs for them, too, with similar stylings. Enter Porsche, with their one-up silver cowbarn, so the truly affluent can once again flash a meaningful badge in front of others! Or you could model yourself on royalty, with a Landrover and a pair of green wellies! Go to town, suckers! while johnny yokel jostles with lord and lady muck to get through the doorway of their local SUV dealers, the car company's board of directors must be busting a gut laughing at their gullibility.
ken livingstone agrees, and the city of Paris agrees--they want to ban them completely, as "dangerous caricatures of cars" and I'm afraid just because you live up a tree somewhere and must have an SUV to get there, does not make reasonable the concept of someone wanting a car that is bigger than everyone else's just so they can flash their wad in public.
By all means focus on hostility to me--but this tiny fig leaf of anger can never fully obscure the bloated belly of idiocy which belongs exclusively to these engorged cartoon characters cluttering up our streets.
methinks thou dost protest too much!
The only thing man cannot endure is meaninglessness.
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Departed Member
Good grief, Iain! I'll give that 10/10 for your release of that 'pent-up feeling'!
From my 'up-country' perspective, living on a dead flat (you don't really need a handbrake !), urban, fairly narrow, 40 house street (pause for breath!), I fail to see why the five 4WD owners cannot make at least an attempt to park the d*mn things properly!
Is it in fact compulsory, as a 'urban-only' driver/owner of one of these 'things' to, a) park well away from the kerb, making sure the vehicle (and its wheels) are never parallel with that kerb, b) never use traffic indicators (apart from hanging their handbag on!), never use the mirror (apart from primping their hair!) and d) never allow another person in the vehicle (regardless of how many seats there are), except just possibly at the weekend to visit granny!
We're not having a 'go' at the folk who really need them. Our town is at the centre of a basically rural community. If a farmer coming into town in his stretched Landrover can drive courteously and park sensibly, why cannot the car-polishing, 5 miles-a-day cretins who live in the town, do so?
Gosh, Bob! Thanks for re-instating this post! Much appreciated! It's quite fun, occasionally, to have a topic that you can let off some steam in. Far, far better than, as on one forum, countless posts agonising over whether their particular version of a Kilt is really ........ a skirt (gasp, shock, horror!).
From my 'up-country' perspective, living on a dead flat (you don't really need a handbrake !), urban, fairly narrow, 40 house street (pause for breath!), I fail to see why the five 4WD owners cannot make at least an attempt to park the d*mn things properly!
Is it in fact compulsory, as a 'urban-only' driver/owner of one of these 'things' to, a) park well away from the kerb, making sure the vehicle (and its wheels) are never parallel with that kerb, b) never use traffic indicators (apart from hanging their handbag on!), never use the mirror (apart from primping their hair!) and d) never allow another person in the vehicle (regardless of how many seats there are), except just possibly at the weekend to visit granny!
We're not having a 'go' at the folk who really need them. Our town is at the centre of a basically rural community. If a farmer coming into town in his stretched Landrover can drive courteously and park sensibly, why cannot the car-polishing, 5 miles-a-day cretins who live in the town, do so?
Gosh, Bob! Thanks for re-instating this post! Much appreciated! It's quite fun, occasionally, to have a topic that you can let off some steam in. Far, far better than, as on one forum, countless posts agonising over whether their particular version of a Kilt is really ........ a skirt (gasp, shock, horror!).
yep! I felt better after writing that! we're all agreed that skirts are good, and it's good to know the average membership isn't a pushover one way or the other. you can't go out dressed differently than the entire country you live in and not have some kind of moxie.
The only thing man cannot endure is meaninglessness.
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ChrisM
- Member Extraordinaire
- Posts: 468
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 12:49 am
- Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Islands
One point I've not seen raised:
Some people prefer SUVs and their ilk in order to create an island of personal space.
Today's urban society is so crowded and noisy that people are seizing every opportunity to create privacy. Some author referred to this trend as "cocooning" - the creation of a soft white blanket with the world on the other side of it. We see it in the ubiquity of the iPod headphone in a crowd. And we certainly see it in the preference for an entire tropical island as a conveyance, rather than, say, a Smart.
Now me, I prefer REAL tropical islands, and I also prefer Smarts. But perhaps rather than outlawing SUVs, we ought to discuss ways of helping society evolve in a manner that would obviate the individual's need to carry his own island of tranquility with him.
Happy motoring.
Chris
Some people prefer SUVs and their ilk in order to create an island of personal space.
Today's urban society is so crowded and noisy that people are seizing every opportunity to create privacy. Some author referred to this trend as "cocooning" - the creation of a soft white blanket with the world on the other side of it. We see it in the ubiquity of the iPod headphone in a crowd. And we certainly see it in the preference for an entire tropical island as a conveyance, rather than, say, a Smart.
Now me, I prefer REAL tropical islands, and I also prefer Smarts. But perhaps rather than outlawing SUVs, we ought to discuss ways of helping society evolve in a manner that would obviate the individual's need to carry his own island of tranquility with him.
Happy motoring.
Chris
he could drive an ordinary car. last I heard, they're soundproof and airtight. can't see why he has to sit inside a popemobile and shove everyone else's interests of space to one side.
if you really think it's a valid reason, drop in on the parking lots of the more exclusive private schools in the UK. not just any private schools, but the top flight ones. the parking lots are crammed with porsche cayennes and new landrover SUVs. these people live in very large houses with very large estates! so if they want to enjoy personal space, why not stay home? because they can't carry their 5 bedroom house lifestyle into the streets, much as they would like to.
if you really think it's a valid reason, drop in on the parking lots of the more exclusive private schools in the UK. not just any private schools, but the top flight ones. the parking lots are crammed with porsche cayennes and new landrover SUVs. these people live in very large houses with very large estates! so if they want to enjoy personal space, why not stay home? because they can't carry their 5 bedroom house lifestyle into the streets, much as they would like to.
The only thing man cannot endure is meaninglessness.
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crfriend
- Master Barista
- Posts: 15176
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 9:52 pm
- Location: New England (U.S.)
- Contact:
Societal decay
What we may be witnessing is just one more symptom of a slow and inexorable breakdown of civil society. It used to be that when one went out into public, one was expected to behave in a civil manner and to take the lives of those around him into account. What we see now is a creeping "Me First!" attitude that thumbs its nose at the people around us -- this holds whether it's an iPod user blowing his eardrums out or an SUV driver bulling her way around ignorant of those around her.ChrisM wrote:Some people prefer SUVs and their ilk in order to create an island of personal space.
Today's urban society is so crowded and noisy that people are seizing every opportunity to create privacy. [...]
Certainly the SUV (I call them "Stupid Urban Vehicles", or if really being driven in a particularly asinine way, "testosterone trucks") are used as an extension of one's "statement of wealth" (or hyper-masculinity), and frequently the more ostentatious the better; hence we wind up with obscenities like the Hummer and the positively gargantuan Fords in the US. The Acura, Porsche, and Lexus SUVs are a further extension of this -- a form of conspicuous consumption. If they can even operate off-road, their drivers never would do so, nor probably have the skills.
I view the four-wheel-drive truck as a specialist's tool -- something that makes absolutely perfect sense for someone who actually needs the ability to go virtually anywhere whether there's a road or not. Pickup trucks make great sense as construction and farm vehicles, and the SUV makes sense for surveyors and folks who carry fragile/sensitive devices *and* really require a go-anywhere conveyance. Where they cease to be legitimate tools and become "Stupid Urban Vehicles" is where they're used as regular cars or as ostentatious "statements", and it's the latter class of owner that needs a lesson in Civics 101.
Retrocomputing -- It's not just a job, it's an adventure!