What women really think

[Damon]

c r friend wrote

The operative thought should be here, "Would I behave in this manner in a public setting?" or, "Would an otherwise sane person behave so in a public setting?", and if the answer comes up as a "No" then ask the needed questions of the needed parties.

I agree entirely. Unfortunately, in Canada at the moment, such a straightforwardly sane approach seems to be beyond the ability of the authorities.

My fear has been stated by others else where in Skirt Cafe, that society is going backwards in its attitudes and it may one day be impossible for a man to go outside his home wearing anything but conventional male clothing. One of the reasons for that is aggressive transgenderism, largely by people who are not transgender but perhaps more transvestite. And it being taken to ridiculous extremes such as permitting and protecting a 50 year old man to expose himself to young girls on the insane premise that he identifies as a young girl.

I imagine and hope that every man participating in Skirt Cafe would be mortified to discover they had accidentally indecently exposed themselves to a child, and would certainly not go out of their way to do it repeatedly to several young girls. Nor would any sane person condone it. Yet here in Canada the authorities appear to do.

We also seem to be forgetting that Skirt Cafe

is NOT a transvestite or crossdresser forum. We are committed to a fundamentally masculine gender identity --- masculine name and pronouns.

Let us hope we do not return to the bad old days of 'Queer bashing' and men being arrested and even imprisoned for wearing female clothes.

https://share.google/images/COLHs9ptqn9bL5nM2

[Faldaguy]

There seems as in most of these things to be an emphasis on trigger words; assumptions of the worst-- without much regard for getting complete data.

My hackles went up with mention of Megan Kelly and the Charlie Kirk show; with ex Fox news host -- entities prone to boast, hoax, lies and slander.

I do not know if any of that applies here, but limited research states the 50 year person was and had been openly transgender for over a decade; is/was a teacher and psychologist with no criminal or mental health record. The person had not had SRS, thus it is certainly suspect male genitalia may have been visible -- but if that arose to blatantly exposing some particular portion of the body, I don't know -- more loaded words and assumptions. The police were called -- but did not respond because the "problem" was resolved by the facility at the time of the "incident", where the person was, and presumable had for years, been using the the facility in accordance with their guidelines for people to use the lockeroom with which they identified. The person in question had been a competitive swimmer for many years and though the competition had younger participants in other events, the event (1500 meters) in which this person participated was for 'adults' 16 and over in age.

I am not commenting upon agreement/disagreement or otherwise with the particulars of the event and the constraints that have been imposed, but I do not think it behooves us to reiterate and exploit language designed to inflame. If I am going to add any raw challenge, it might go to the thread raised on this site about decorum and privacy concerns in the loo -- where I questioned if the puritan view of bodies was not more a hinderance to our social fabric than adapting a more naturist viewpoint.

[Barleymower]

If the pandemic taught me one thing, it is this: "we are given the information the media wants us to see". Human's are easily manipulated. There was a massive rise in transgenderism then suddenly it was stopped. It was stopped because because it was perceived that predatory males were entering women spaces. Further, transwomen like Lia Thomas were entering and winning women's swimming competitions.

I ask myself this "who wanted it stopped? What did they have to gain?" I don't believe it had anything to do with predatory males. I think they wanted the growth in transgenderism stopped in it's tracks. And it worked.

As for female spaces. I regularly use Paignton' Keywest water Park in the summer and there is only one changing room. Everyone uses it; Men, Women and children. If there were any impropriety, decent men and women would put a stop to it quickly. The way it should be. Men are not animals and women do not need to be kept safe. We should all be able to live together.

That's the way a community should work. What happened to our communities and who destroyed them?

[Damon]

The voice of reason. Wha a great post!

Barleymower posted:

If the pandemic taught me one thing, it is this: "we are given the information the media wants us to see". Human's are easily manipulated. There was a massive rise in transgenderism then suddenly it was stopped. It was stopped because because it was perceived that predatory males were entering women spaces. Further, transwomen like Lia Thomas were entering and winning women's swimming competitions.

I ask myself this "who wanted it stopped? What did they have to gain?" I don't believe it had anything to do with predatory males. I think they wanted the growth in transgenderism stopped in it's tracks. And it worked.

As for female spaces. I regularly use Paignton' Keywest water Park in the summer and there is only one changing room. Everyone uses it; Men, Women and children. If there were any impropriety, decent men and women would put a stop to it quickly. The way it should be. Men are not animals and women do not need to be kept safe. We should all be able to live together.

That's the way a community should work. What happened to our communities and who destroyed them?

Nothing more to be said really.

[STEVIE]

Let us hope we do not return to the bad old days of 'Queer bashing' and men being arrested and even imprisoned for wearing female clothes.

There are countries in the world where being "queer" ie non conforming and different can get you legally imprisoned or even executed.

I do not know if any of that applies here, but limited research states the 50 year person was and had been openly transgender for over a decade; is/was a teacher and psychologist with no criminal or mental health record. The person had not had SRS, thus it is certainly suspect male genitalia may have been visible -- but if that arose to blatantly exposing some particular portion of the body, I don't know -- more loaded words and assumptions. The police were called -- but did not respond because the "problem" was resolved by the facility at the time of the "incident", where the person was, and presumable had for years, been using the the facility in accordance with their guidelines for people to use the lockeroom with which they identified. The person in question had been a competitive swimmer for many years and though the competition had younger participants in other events, the event (1500 meters) in which this person participated was for 'adults' 16 and over in age.

This is the context that you missed that leads to public anger, queer bashing and death.
Skirt Cafe and the MIS movement may not be aligned with cross-dressing or transgenderism, but nor is it about promoting any kind of intolerance either.
Furthermore, the Cross-Dressers and Transgendered communities occupy very different camps too, which your original post seemed to indicate that you weren't fully aware.

You must see it is wrong to force young girls who just want to swim to share a changing room with a middle aged man. Unless you believe that sort of thing is okay, I think you should consider apologizing for misrepresenting me.

Stop peddling half truths out of context as fact and I will gladly apologise.
However, on this occasion I don't consider it warranted.

Nothing more to be said really.

On this, I concur. Steve.

[mr seamstress]

How bathrooms get to separated by one sex? Since there is conversation about males into female zones, I thought this info might be interesting.

https://files.eqcf.org/wp-content/uploa ... ebates.pdf

There is always going to debate this issue about who has the right to what is male privacy zone, and female privacy zone; who is included in these zones.

[jamie001]

Excuse me!

One of the responses to this thread got to me. Please note that not all of us here on the Cafe have a masculine gender identity. Some of us are more feminine and should be respected as such. There is nothing wrong with being a feminine male and expressing femininity in the clothing and accessories that we wear. Please do not let Daddy Donnie influence this forum by making statements that we only support masculine identities here on the Cafe. It is a step backward and is consistent with CR’s fears of our country reverting back to the 1950’s.

[Damon]

Jamie 001 wrote:

Please note that not all of us here on the Cafe have a masculine gender identity. Some of us are more feminine and should be respected as such. There is nothing wrong with being a feminine male and expressing femininity in the clothing and accessories that we wear. Please do not let Daddy Donnie influence this forum by making statements that we only support masculine identities here on the Cafe. It is a step backward and is consistent with CR’s fears of our country reverting back to the 1950’s.

I believe that men should wear whatever they want and be as masculine or feminine as they wish. My point is that the actions of a very very few, such as the man who identifies as a young girl, then using that to display himself in front of young girls in a changing room are largely responsible for Donald Trumps backlash and the public support it enjoys. As for the officials who permit him entry to the girl's changing facilities when their primary duty is to protect those young girls, their conduct is criminal in my view.

Also, I think that many members of Skirt Cafe would like to see skirts become more mainstream acceptable wear for men. Numerous posts have expressed the hope that by wearing skirts and presenting as masculine they might inspire another man to try it. I don't think that a normal man is likely to be persuaded if the man he sees wearing the skirt is doing so to appear feminine.

The dream of many on Skirt Cafe is that skirts and dresses be somehow uncoupled from gender identity. Wearing them to appear feminine is counter productive and damaging to that aim.

Damon

[Barleymower]

Jamie 001 wrote:

Please note that not all of us here on the Cafe have a masculine gender identity. Some of us are more feminine and should be respected as such. There is nothing wrong with being a feminine male and expressing femininity in the clothing and accessories that we wear. Please do not let Daddy Donnie influence this forum by making statements that we only support masculine identities here on the Cafe. It is a step backward and is consistent with CR’s fears of our country reverting back to the 1950’s.

I believe that men should wear whatever they want and be as masculine or feminine as they wish. My point is that the actions of a very very few, such as the man who identifies as a young girl, then using that to display himself in front of young girls in a changing room are largely responsible for Donald Trumps backlash and the public support it enjoys. As for the officials who permit him entry to the girl's changing facilities when their primary duty is to protect those young girls, their conduct is criminal in my view.

Also, I think that many members of Skirt Cafe would like to see skirts become more mainstream acceptable wear for men. Numerous posts have expressed the hope that by wearing skirts and presenting as masculine they might inspire another man to try it. I don't think that a normal man is likely to be persuaded if the man he sees wearing the skirt is doing so to appear feminine.

The dream of many on Skirt Cafe is that skirts and dresses be somehow uncoupled from gender identity. Wearing them to appear feminine is counter productive and damaging to that aim.

Damon

Damon I respect free speech but you are just plain wrong. What's more, what you are saying is dangerous and not what the thread is about.
For all the transgender people that have crossed my path, they have all been good people. They are just normal people that for one reason or another are not happy with their assigned gender. It has been described as a living hell. These people should be fully accepted into the community and allowed to live their life in peace.

There is however a large group of bigoted men and women who are very possessive about gender identity. They might be men who can't outwardly face their own dysphoria, or women who are territorial about being female. When they talk about female spaces they are not just talking about the toilet and the changing rooms. They mean everything about being a women and in their eyes men can't have any of it - including skirts. Reasons, arguments are put forward saying that men are dangerous, women/girls need safe spaces. Mostly what they really mean is they want men out, out, out. Stories like the one you KEEP putting up are put about to raise the heckles and to get everyone onside. It works and it keeps men in their place where they want them.

So stop now. point taken. if you want to say it again start your own thread about men exposing themselves to kids.

BTW the point of the thread was give a broad brush on where women stand towards MIS. I can't say because I'm not a women so if I were to say authoritatively "this is what women think" I would surely be put down because I don't know the first thing about being a women.