Pdxfashionpioneer wrote: ↑Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:50 am
Stu wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 12:54 pm
True, there is no law - but there doesn't need to be a law. All they need to do is:
1. Apply intense social pressure to make skirt-wearing by males a taboo, and they achieve that by conflating it with femininity, or transsexualism etc. The media supports this line. Males who do wear them are either ostracised or presented as oddballs.
2. Lack of availability. Mainstream suppliers stock zero male skirts. They do not market them for men or boys or depict men or boys wearing them. Males generally then have to source them from women's suppliers, effectively forcing them to cross-dress and then we are back to Problem 1.
Who needs a law?
Again, who is "they?"
"ostracized ... oddballs" for crying out loud,
Vogue not only gave Harry Styles a full spread, they put him on the front cover! If people dismiss him as an oddball it sure hasn't hurt his social life. The women in his life are unfailingly beautiful and accomplished in their own right. If that's what comes of being viewed an oddball, bring it on! Please!!!
Yes, skirts and dresses are associated with femininity, but you said it yourself, in this or another thread;
everyone's personality is a blend of so-called masculine and feminine traits. So, a man expressing his feminine side by wearing a skirt or dress doesn't diminish his masculinity, nor make him less of a man; in a way, it makes him more of a man because he knows who he is and displays that confidently.
What "intense social pressure?" I don't get any, unless you count 1, count it 1, bit of flashback per year.
What "Lack of availability?" Are you kidding me? The stores have several times more skirts and dresses than pants! Soi what if you have to go to the women's department? No one cares! The sales associates sure don't; to a person they have been as eager to help me as anyone else. Step into a dress shop and the social pressure will be for you to try on a dress or skirt. If not several!
So, what's the "men's rights" issue here?! I'm not seeing it.
Just this afternoon I had an interview via Microsoft Team and there I was in my bright blue Halston A-line dress and Evan Picone jacket and if anything, that gave me an advantage over my unseen, unknown competition for the position, because the Human Resources manager I was meeting with said that they look for a candidate's quirkiness and mine was on full display!
I feel like you are oversimplifying, here. There is intense social pressure, whether we like it, or not--at least in the US. Over here, a person can be fired for any reason that is not protected by labor laws. That gives employers much latitude getting rid of "unsightly" employees. Sure, they often can't outright say they've fired you for gender expression, but that doesn't stop them for firing you for "showing up a minute late", or "not fitting in with company culture".
I say this as a man, who is fortunate enough to be able to wear skirts to work. It does impact us. In fact, I am convinced that part of the reason why I had such a bad time at my last job is because of my skirt wearing for various reasons. I can't be certain of this, but I also can't discount it as the reason people started sabotaging me. And I am at least aware that somebody, at some point, came to my boss and complained about my skirt wearing.
Even worse, it might affect our loved ones far more than we even realize. I only recently became aware of how much my skirt wearing adversely affects my wife's comfort level, even though she accepts it (and has even bought me skirts as gifts). Because people wouldn't dare directly address me, more often than not, they address my wife. It also singles us out, which is not preferred, and even though I have accepted the attention that my skirt-wearing draws, my wife is less comfortable with that fact (and it doesn't help that she's already othered quite significantly in another way as one of 2 black teachers in a mostly white district). Recently, she expressed her concern to me that we might be missing opportunities because she has an openly skirt-wearing husband.
This is a men's rights issue. Just because an injustice isn't codified into law, that does not mean that rights aren't being systemically infracted.
And as for you point that it's easy to find a womens' skirt, that's true, but it's besides the point. For you it might be easy to throw on an outfit tailored for womens' bodies, but this is not so for everyone. Skirts are part of an outfit, which means, unless you are going topless, you need a top to complement it. Unfortunately, I find that most men's tops look terrible with a skirt.
If you tuck them in, they bunch up and accentuate your gut. If you leave them untucked, they're often too long, or they taper at the bottom and end up bunching up the skirt. Furthermore, I simply don't like the look of most shirts without flat-bottomed hems over skirts. It looks slovenly to me. Unfortunately, it is difficult to find long-sleeved, flat-bottom-hemmed shirts that don't also hug your waist and bunch up your skirt.
Then there's the pattern/color matching issue. Color coordination is hard enough for a man, who, like most men, are raised without any training in it. But since shirts are the primary means for men to express themselves, men's shirts are often patterned in motifs that flagrantly conflict with skirts.
And forget about women's tops for me. I have tried them, and they just don't work out--especially since I lack breasts.
If somebody made an honest effort into designing skirted mens' outfits, I guarantee you that I wouldn't have such difficulty finding a shirt to match my skirts.
