Out and About -- In the World at Large

[dillon]

Last night I went to the Dept of Film Studies at UNCW to watch a couple short works made by a Canadian named Cami, an alumnus of the Dept. Wore the long Merrel black skirt with side seam drawstring ruching and a black tee, black Sanuk flip flops. Suitably "artsy" I guess. One film, Line 9, about the tar-sands protests in Canada was interesting, though under-informative, IMO; the other, which I believe was called The Shift, about the disconnect between the natural world and the economics-driven society, was really too broad and weird for me to appreciate. It had been billed as an expression of how a feminine perspective might improve society, but I didn't really find that apparent in the production. It was an artistic film and used some very strange dance in it. Glad it was a free event is about the best I can say.

Saturday was hiking with the kids; it was quite hot, around 90F. Glad I was skirted in a relatively new ExOfficio Nomad skirt, light khaki. I'm going backpacking for a 3 day trip soon with my daughter and will probably use both the Nomad skirts I own, the other in a sort of gray-brown, and also the new Kuhl Kontra skirt that arrived Monday.

[Departed Member]

So far, my time in Edinburgh, Scotland this last week since I moved here has been very positive regarding the wearing of skirts. I haven't worn trousers to school once yet, only skirts. No has made mention, complained, or done anything negative. I've had stares, to be sure, but no comments whatsoever. I think most of the members of my program cohort just think I'm wearing a kilt, since they are all foreign like me. But the teachers and other students from Scotland having said a word, which makes it a lot easier. However, I had a discouraging incident last night while speaking with a female acquaintance of mine who knows I wear skirts, even women's skirts that I make sure can't be overtly deemed feminine by most people. No matter how logically I argued with her, she just refused to see the logic behind y arguments on why men should be allowed to wear skirts too, and just insisted that for a man to wear a skirt was look feminine. I of course tried the logical argument that for her to wear trousers is for her to be masculine, which she of course pushed aside, saying its different. When I asked her why she wore skirts and had long hair, she replied "because I'm a girl and I can." At that point, very discouraged inside, I knew there was no getting through to her no matter what. Only action can bring about the change we want. We need to be the change we want to see come about, as someone famous once said...can't remember who though. But it was quite discouraging and frustrating to have her basically say "I'm a girl and I can do whatever the hell I want because of it, but you as a man can only do things one way and not have the same freedom girls like to claim for themselves."

But, tomorrow is another day, probably skirted as well.

[crfriend]

We need to be the change we want to see come about, as someone famous once said...can't remember who though.

That'd be Mahatma Gandhi. It's a powerful quote and an even more powerful sentiment if one really takes it to heart.

But it was quite discouraging and frustrating to have her basically say "I'm a girl and I can do whatever the hell I want because of it, but you as a man can only do things one way and not have the same freedom girls like to claim for themselves."

I can see how that mentality could be off-putting, but the key is to not let it get you down -- nor grind you down. Guys are as free to exercise options the same way the gals are, but it takes more guts for guys to do so now because of all the conditioning we get rammed into us when we're in our formative years.

Just accept that she has a closed mind and pay it no further heed. If she badgers you about your skirt-wearing simply tell her to shut up about it because her intransigent stance is not going to change who you are. If it doesn't come up again in conversation that's probably best because if it does she's just demonstrating her closed-mindedness -- time and again -- which does not do her any credit. Let it go.

I'm not advocating being an insensitive prick here. That would put you in the same boat as her. I'm just saying that sometimes it's best to just let things wash over one and to not get bothered by it.

[Kilted_John]

Another way, is to just say "I'm a guy and I can do whatever I want. If you don't like it, you don't have to be around me." Essentially take what she said, and change "girl" to "guy". Wonder if she spells "Women" as "Womyn". Might be a feminist who doesn't really care for guys, therefore thinks they should be put into a small box, unable to have any individuality.

I'm still dealing with a bit of that here at home with my sister. A few days ago, she mentioned that my hair was getting kind of long (it's almost waist-length now), and my response was to say, "Yes, it is." I probably should've said, "Thanks for the compliment", even though I knew it was meant to say that it was time for me to get it cut. Like I'm going to.

-J

[Departed Member]

Another way, is to just say "I'm a guy and I can do whatever I want. If you don't like it, you don't have to be around me." Essentially take what she said, and change "girl" to "guy". Wonder if she spells "Women" as "Womyn". Might be a feminist who doesn't really care for guys, therefore thinks they should be put into a small box, unable to have any individuality.

That's exactly what I did, turning every single one of her arguments against her, but it didn't phase her; it just made her more riled up and illogical in her arguments claiming its not the same. But, as discouraging as it was, it'll wash over and tomorrow will be better. It won't be a problem again; she knows there's no changing me. We're still friends.

And CRFriend, I was thinking that was Ghandi, but I couldn't remember. I can handle the ridicule of other males; I just see them for the ignorant, air sucking, knuckle dragging baboons their comments make them seem like. It's a different thing altogether though when a woman does it and refuses to see any similarity between the fight for men to be accepted in wearing skirts as when women fought to wear trousers. That type of hypocrisy just gets me to the bone, like the hypocrisy of early American revolutionaries "yelping" for their liberty while enslaving Africans. I can't imagine what it must be like for those of you who are married and don't have the support of your SOs.

[Uncle Al]

Food for thought - I read this quote on Facebook,

"The mind is like a parachute = It only works when it is open"

Uncle Al

[crfriend]

I can handle the ridicule of other males; I just see them for the ignorant, air sucking, knuckle dragging baboons their comments make them seem like. It's a different thing altogether though when a woman does it and refuses to see any similarity between the fight for men to be accepted in wearing skirts as when women fought to wear trousers.

When it comes to this sort of thing, it's worth recalling that narrow-mindedness and hypocrisy are "equal opportunity" options for men and women alike. All of us have dignity, and that needs to be respected if not cherished. Lumping all men into the category of "ignorant, air sucking, knuckle dragging baboons" does nobody any favours any more than lumping all women into the "airhead, bimbo, just wants to get laid" category.

The human mind is a complex thing, and it's prone to firing falsely if that's how it's been prepped. The key here is to stay resolute in the face of inanity and ignorance. It is up to us -- not the "great unwashed masses" -- to triumph here because it's us that are trying to climb the hill. We need to expect, and even anticipate, idiocy now and then -- from anybody -- and women can be fully as closed-minded as guys can be. It's also up to us to not get ground down by the mass around us.

That type of hypocrisy just gets me to the bone, like the hypocrisy of early American revolutionaries "yelping" for their liberty while enslaving Africans. I can't imagine what it must be like for those of you who are married and don't have the support of your SOs.

When reading US history, do not read the words -- grasp the subtext. You will find that it puts an interesting spin on things. (Or, honestly, any other history as well.)

[dillon]

Food for thought - I read this quote on Facebook,

"The mind is like a parachute = It only works when it is open"

Uncle Al

I have that on a bumper sticker on my van. It's from one of the Humanist associations/societies.

As for the irrational woman, the most you can do is ask if she believes in equality, and if so, by what stretch of logic is a woman entitled to rights and freedoms that a man is not? And if the roles were reversed, or the calender rolled back 100 years, what then would she think? And if repressive discrimination is okay between sexes, or natural genders, why not between races or religons? Its astounding the way that people choose to wear blinders, and removing them, even long enough to examine the logic of their belief, is simply beyond their capability or will.

[Brad]

I wore a denim skirt and wedge sandals (as in my last Pics and Looks post) to Times Square, NYC today. It was mid-afternoon on a Sunday. As most are probably aware, this is the main tourist attraction in NYC and also the theater district area. This area is what most people imagine when they think of NYC. There is a high density of pedestrian traffic in this area.

The trip was a non-event. A few looked at me but no stares, comments, or rudeness. If I didn't know better, I would have thought I was dressed "normally" for a male.

[Caultron]

I wore a denim skirt and wedge sandals (as in my last Pics and Looks post) to Times Square, NYC today. It was mid-afternoon on a Sunday. As most are probably aware, this is the main tourist attraction in NYC and also the theater district area. This area is what most people imagine when they think of NYC. There is a high density of pedestrian traffic in this area.

The trip was a non-event. A few looked at me but no stares, comments, or rudeness. If I didn't know better, I would have thought I was dressed "normally" for a male.

I've been to Times Square once, and that was very brief. But given its reputation, I imagine you can do almost anything and people will just say, "Well, that's Time Square."

[Kilted Musician]

I had an interesting day here in Santa Barbara CA. I'm here on a business trip and Sunday is my only day off so I decided to wear my black Utilikilt, olive green t-shirt, and black Vans [skateboard shoes]. I was walking around downtown and a guy and his GF/wife passed by. He looked at my kilt, smiled, and said to her, "Sweet!" Then, a little while later, I walked past this guy and he asked, "Which way are you voting?" I was kinda surprised because I know that there's some measures to be voted on here in Santa Barbara in November. I told him I was from out-of-town and wouldn't be voting here. He said, "Oh, I meant for Scottish Independence." He thought I was from Scotland because I was wearing my kilt! When I mentioned that I live here in California, he smiled and said, "Nice kilt" and we said our goodbyes. As I was walking on Stearn's Wharf, I had to discretely hold the front down because the cool breeze kept blowing it up! On the way back to my motel, I was stopped by a guy who smiled and said, "What clan?" I told him my last name's Gray and that it has nothing to do with my kilt, he said, "Davidson here and I'm going to get me a kilt!"

All in all, it was a great day here in Santa Barbara!

--Rick

[Sinned]

PB, your friend doesn't know MOH does she, she sounds familiar? With her she's a friend so you aren't around her all the time whereas I'm married to MOH so I see her all the time. Seriously, I've had just those discussions many times with MOH and you won't win because you're using logic to try and counter an illogical opinion, so don't even try. Lead by example and SHOW her wrong. She will use any logical argument against you turned on its head. I accused MOH of being domineering in imposing her narrow values on me and she turned this the other way around and accused me of being domineering by "flaunting" ( her word ) my skirts around her all the time! She has said that she fully expects me to go further in wearing female things and to even want to become a woman despite my protestations. Only time will prove her wrong.

Oh, she works on occasion for a few hours in a Chinese take-away taking and dishing out orders for food and she said that a man came in the other night and had nail varnish on his fingers and it didn't look right ( said in a voice akin to revulsion ). I simply said, "So what, if that's what he wants to de then what's to stop him? Your opinion won't matter a damn to him, you're just another face in the crowd. If you'll remember I tried it a couple of times and decided it wasn't for me. Too high maintenance and anyway as soon as I tried any job around the house the varnish would chip so as I said too high maintenance. Been there, done it, don't want to again." No offence to those of you who do wear nail varnish - I admire you for it being your thing.

[skirtyscot]

Welcome to Scotland, Potbelly! It's good to have another skirted man here.

Don't let the naysayer woman get you down. Think of that conversation as practice in arguing your case. Most people will see your point. Many will agree logically but still think it looks highly odd, while others will take the "why not?" message to heart.

What sort of skirts have you been wearing, that non-Scots think they are kilts?

[Caultron]

...I walked past this guy and he asked, "Which way are you voting?" I was kinda surprised because I know that there's some measures to be voted on here in Santa Barbara in November. I told him I was from out-of-town and wouldn't be voting here. He said, "Oh, I meant for Scottish Independence." He thought I was from Scotland because I was wearing my kilt! When I mentioned that I live here in California, he smiled and said, "Nice kilt" and we said our goodbyes.

Interesting. Yesterday I was out walking in our local park, wearing a utility kilt as usual. A woman headed the opposite direction stopped and asked me, as well, how I was voting. It took a few tries to convince her I wash't Scottish, and then she asked what I was. I told her that my grandparents were from Belgium and Germany, and that my last name was Belgian in origin. She said she was from Italy, and I remarked I'd been there a couple of times, and we talked briefly about that.

"So if you aren't Scottish, why are you wearing a kilt?" she eventually asked.

"Just crazy," I replied, and then she remarked, "Well, why not, it's a free country," and then we wished each other good days and continued our walks.

[Charlie]

...I walked past this guy and he asked, "Which way are you voting?" I was kinda surprised because I know that there's some measures to be voted on here in Santa Barbara in November. I told him I was from out-of-town and wouldn't be voting here. He said, "Oh, I meant for Scottish Independence." He thought I was from Scotland because I was wearing my kilt! When I mentioned that I live here in California, he smiled and said, "Nice kilt" and we said our goodbyes.

Interesting. Yesterday I was out walking in our local park, wearing a utility kilt as usual. A woman headed the opposite direction stopped and asked me, as well, how I was voting. It took a few tries to convince her I wash't Scottish, and then she asked what I was. I told her that my grandparents were from Belgium and Germany, and that my last name was Belgian in origin. She said she was from Italy, and I remarked I'd been there a couple of times, and we talked briefly about that.

"So if you aren't Scottish, why are you wearing a kilt?" she eventually asked.

"Just crazy," I replied, and then she remarked, "Well, why not, it's a free country," and then we wished each other good days and continued our walks.

I've had a similar conversation while wearing a kilt. For some people, kilt = Scottish and its a job to get through to them that you're not a Scot.
As for the "Why are you wearing a kilt then?" question, I've occasionally replied that (with apologies to the cafe in general, but these conversations are often transitory and a lot of information has to be put over quickly) I like wearing skirts but don't want to pass myself off as a woman, so a kilt is a good compromise. They're happy with that.
I'm thinking that utility kilts such as Utilikilts and Union Kilts are a new concept in men's clothing.
Charlie