It's time to call the Stylist

[SkirtRevolution]

Over the last month I have been thinking seriously about how important it is to present ourselves in public. Each one of us has our own style and each style is wonderful and all personal tastes should be encouraged. Moreover, each one of us no doubt has skirts that we love to wear but these skirts would not be a good idea to wear in public. Every time I go out in public skirted I am always conscious of one goal; AM I BEING A GOOD ADVOCATE FOR MEN’S SKIRTS? I have skirts at home that I love to wear, but I would never wear them in public, not that I care what people think of me, rather it I would be doing more harm than good. As I build Men’s Skirts on facebook I am always looking through the internet for more and more pictures to add to the site, but so very often I come across men in skirts that look frightfully horrid. As I learn more about styling the “man skirt look” I see that sometimes there can be a fine line between fashionista and just weird. A person that has style and is more of a fashionista can wear the most outrageous clothing and be completely accepted by society yet a person that has no style and just throws on a skirt can look in many cases, weird! We often say, “Men just need to get out there and wear skirts” But this is not always the case when men don’t look any good when doing it. In fact, it only reinforces the prejudices against the idea of skirts for men.

I really believe that if we are going to make inroads in seeing men’s skirt as a trend and mainstream, we not only need to get out there wearing skirts, but we must also MAKE IT LOOK GOOD! If its going to be, then it up to us. We need to really start thinking about the impression we are making. Are people looking at us and thinking we look weird, but we don’t care because we are secure in ourselves or are people saying “hey that looks good” or “he is really rocking that manskirt, if guys wear it like that then I am all for men’s skirts...Bring it on”, or “he’s a trend setter, and he’s got style”. You get my point. I am not saying anything negative against anyone here and the bad pictures I have seen are not by anyone on this forum, but I want to suggest to us all about BECOMING SKILLED IN THE ART OF STYLING so that we are always good advocates when in the public eye. I don’t think women won pants by looking silly or like men; rather they have always from the beginning made feminine pants look stylish. I have seen pictures of men in skirts that look seriously awesome and I think people need to start seeing these AWESOME MAN SKIRT TRENDS in order to combat years of negative imagery and mentality of weird men in skirts.

[GerdG]

AM I BEING A GOOD ADVOCATE FOR MEN’S SKIRTS?
MAKE IT LOOK GOOD!
AWESOME MAN SKIRT TRENDS

I so very much agree. To me those points are exactly some of the serious problems men in skirts have to deal with.

Too many men are NOT good advocates for men wearing skirts. To normal people they are transvestites and they have never been high on the rang list. Reason why: Too many femme things at one time like skirt, heels, tights, below waist “woman”, above waist “man” etc.

Many men don’t try hard to make it look good. They go for thrifty things, only. The cheaper the better. Add to that that they have little idea of mixing things, like colors, in a proper way.

Accordingly there must be long, long between what you call awesome man skirts trends.

[rick401r]

This is my complaint about most men's fashion designers. They introduce a reasonable "skirt for men" only to adorn their models in outragious trappings that make the thought of a man wearing a skirt an object of ridicule.

[crfriend]

This is my complaint about most men's fashion designers. They introduce a reasonable "skirt for men" only to adorn their models in outragious trappings that make the thought of a man wearing a skirt an object of ridicule.

I've mentioned it before, and feel it needs mentioning again: What we're looking for is not going to come off a runway somehwere because the aims are different. The runway designer is trying for "shock and awe" to prove to the critics how avant garde he is; what we're after is comfortable functional clothing that just happens to not include trousers. We're not out to shock the audience; we're folks who merely want the choice to do something other than pants.

AM I BEING A GOOD ADVOCATE FOR MEN’S SKIRTS?
MAKE IT LOOK GOOD!
AWESOME MAN SKIRT TRENDS

Those are all good points, and certainly marks to strive for. However, sometimes we will inevitably fall short of those marks for we're only human, and when we do fall short I still think that the best fashion statement we can make is that whatever look we managed to put together that morning is "believeable" to the onlooker and does not look inappropriate or outlandish.

It's worth recalling that "being a good advocate" takes an enormous amount of energy and dedication, and that's something that none of can have all the time; however, should we revert to trousers if we simply happen to be in a bad mood or are having a low-energy day? Personally, I would counsel "No."

[Since1982]

Moreover, each one of us no doubt has skirts that we love to wear but these skirts would not be a good idea to wear in public. Every time I go out in public skirted I am always conscious of one goal; AM I BEING A GOOD ADVOCATE FOR MEN’S SKIRTS? I have skirts at home that I love to wear, but I would never wear them in public, not that I care what people think of me, rather it I would be doing more harm than good.

I think you are very wrong about men who want to be comfortable in a skirt instead of tight pants worn by Chopper and Horse users, aka Levi's or Farmer Browns.

Your phrase that "no doubt" every man in a skirt has skirts hidden in the closet that he really just "Loves" to wear that never look masculine and always look effeminate is just wrong in my view. Please don't start lumping every skirt wearing man into the same pot you seem to be in. That's just not factual.

[STEVIE]

I have one distinct problem with this thread, how do you establish exactly how "good" the look is? Who is the arbiter to decide that one look is right, the other wrong? I will concede that there are extremes which, to some tastes will be clearly wrong. However, my own look could easily be classed as femme bottom/homme top. That is the way I have personally evolved my own dress sense, I'm not saying it's right, but who can say it's wrong?
I can't say I'm totally "out" yet but, I also agree with Skip here. I do not own a skirt that I would not wear out and about when the time is right for me to.
We each contribute to the skirted guys revolution in our own way, whether it's telling or showing, it's still valid.
Steve.

[SkirtRevolution]

Not to put anyone in a box or to question our individuality and personal style, but the truth is that society has negative imagery of men in skirts .When people think of a man wearing a skirt they think of a man wearing feminine skirts that don’t fit them and doing a bad job at crossdressing. This has been portray this way by the media and reinforced by society, perpetuating the idea that skirts can only be feminine. What I am suggesting, is that we need to offer society a COUNTER example that men truly can look masculine in skirted garments. I personally believe this is one of the reasons for the overwhelming success of the utility kilts. They seem to not carry the stigma of a skirt and look masculine and the examples of men that wear them are always masculine. In my own opinion, “Who is the arbiter to decide that one look is right, the other wrong?” Well I would have to say the MOB MENTALITY seems to decide and it’s the MOB that needs convincing if something is to become mainstream. Sadly, most people in society are sheep, and will only follow something because other people are doing it, without questioning why. On the contrary to men in skirts when people think of men in kilts, they usually (especially the women) think it’s hot and masculine, because it has always been portrayed this way; people already have this positive imagery. THIS IS THE GOAL THAT WE NEED TO ACHIEVE WITH SKIRTS! Give them a masculine example!

When I look at the feminist movement, or the GLBT movements, I notice a lot more unified effort in fighting for a goal. Recently there was a march in New York when guys advocated skirts for men (I think it was the million skirted men) but when I saw pictures of these men I was disturbed by the men who were wearing very feminine high heels, and looking like they wear in drag. I am not against men wearing heels but I personally think the whole effort was a waste of time and only become a source of ridicule because there was such a poor example on masculine men in skirts, instead, there were many men reinforcing society’s prejudice that men in skirts are like weird crossdressers. What I propose is that we realise what it is going to take to get men’s skirts as mainstream and have a more unified effort towards this goal.

I have noticed that if I was to simply ask someone about men wearing skirts I am met with immediate opposition, but if I show them an example of a masculine man in a skirt and then ask them........their opinion almost always is positive or more accepting.

[crfriend]

Not to put anyone in a box or to question our individuality and personal style, but the truth is that society has negative imagery of men in skirts .When people think of a man wearing a skirt they think of a man wearing feminine skirts that don’t fit them and doing a bad job at crossdressing.

Whist this may be true for some parts of society, it is not true for all parts of society, so using the "broad brush" to spread tar with is frequently inadvisable. If one lives in what "enlightened" types would consider a backwater then, yes, it's a self-evident "truth" that any male who dons a skirted garment of any type is a crossdresser or somehow "sick"; however, once one gets into more forward-looking areas that's just not the case.

The discussion of what's "masculiine" has been being hashed over here for positively years and, guess what, we've never been able to come to a consenus of what masculinity is much less how "masculine" a garment has to be (can inanimate objects have innate gender, other than as linguistic clues?) before a male will be "permitted" to wear it. If one is not sure whether he's a girl or a boy the basic binary determination is easy; just take a look the next time you're in the shower. Do you have a "can do" attitude, and can you deal with the fact that not everybody is going to like you or your choices? Both of those can be considered masculine traits. In short, if you're willing to take some stick for something you believe in you're being more masculine than arguing or belabouring the point.

Well I would have to say the MOB MENTALITY seems to decide and it’s the MOB that needs convincing if something is to become mainstream. Sadly, most people in society are sheep, and will only follow something because other people are doing it, without questioning why.

Trying to reason with a mob will teach one an abject lesson in failure. The only way to deal with a mob is to divide and conquer. Individuals can be surprisingly reasonable and intelligent; those same individuals when in "mob mode" tend not to be, and this is how riots start. The answer, then, if one is to push for anything other than defeat is to work on the individuals, and to do so in a compelling, intelligent manner. It is also worth noting that trying to brutally hammer the point home isn't going to bring folks over to your/our side, either; force is not the answer. Seduction, on the other hand, is a powerful tool when wielded skillfully; "man up" and use it.

Recently there was a march in New York when guys advocated skirts for men (I think it was the million skirted men) but when I saw pictures of these men I was disturbed by the men who were wearing very feminine high heels, and looking like they wear in drag. I am not against men wearing heels but I personally think the whole effort was a waste of time and only become a source of ridicule because there was such a poor example on masculine men in skirts, instead, there were many men reinforcing society’s prejudice that men in skirts are like weird crossdressers.

That was a number of years ago, close to going on a decade. I am very familiar with the image you're referring to, and that one image is why I believe that the press and the media in general are not our friends in this. If one looks closely at the whole image, one will see that there were vastly more blokes in kilts than there were in skirts; the one that steals the shot, however, is the one wearing a leather mini, pantyhose, and high-heels -- and was lovingly framed by the photographer as that image would sell more copy than a shot of a collection of blokes in kilts which, whether it's generally believed or not, are already accepted as menswear, and were even back then.

What I propose is that we realize what it is going to take to get men’s skirts as mainstream and have a more unified effort towards this goal.

I suspect you will find your "mission" will be akin to herding cats. There is no consensus on what's "masculine" and no consensus on what a "masculine skirt" (other than a kilt) is -- because most of us are free-thinkers, and if we weren't, we wouldn't be wearing skirts anyway, we'd be in jeans or khakis.

I have noticed that if I was to simply ask someone about men wearing skirts I am met with immediate opposition, but if I show them an example of a masculine man in a skirt and then ask them........their opinion almost always is positive or more accepting.

This is a direct application of, "It's easier to get forgiveness than permission." Man up, pick your style, and wear it boldly and confidently; folks will come around much quicker if you challenge them with deeds rather than words. In short, "Don't whine about it. BE THE AMBASSADOR." Basically, it can be summed up, "What I am wearing is based on a personal decision that I made, and since freedom of thought is not (yet) banned it is my decision to exercise it." Do not go about as if you are looking for acceptance or attention; doing so paints you as weak and ineffectual. It's your choice, and since it is not injuring anyone else they just have to deal with it. Don't shove your choice in their face, either, but do not shrink back if challenged.

The bartender at the place in Boston we went to on Saturday gave me a certain amount of flak for my outfit, which is to be expected as it's all in fun. When he actually asked, "What's with your outfit?", I answered very simply, "Because I felt like it.", and the response came back, "That's all the reason you need!" and that, as they say, was that.

[BBB]

The press and other media is will tend to mock men in skirts, kilts etc, sadly it is the nature of the beast. We are an easy target for a laugh and a joke. In the UK we have the sub culture of the saucy risque inuendo in the carry on films, seaside postcard, pantomime dame etc.

Serious commentators have to bury their own and social prejudices. A commentator with an open mind would be a welcome starting point

Good luck.

[Tassierob]

The big difficulty is men still need to be seen as masculine by their choice of dress.
Women on the other hand have managed to change the way society views them. Once they had to dress to look feminine...now they are totally accepted dressed as men. They can even wear a suit with trousers to a business meeting. They have basicly been accepted in anything but it has taken many years from when they first pulled on a pair of trousers to actually achieve this.

We are now beginning to go through this evolution and I really believe that one day it will be normal to see men in skirts in the street. It does take a few brave pioneers to push the boundarys however and that is where we all come in. Spread the word with broad shoulders and don't be afraid to be an individual. If that means you wear a soft flowing skirt or a heavy wool kilt it does not really matter.

The world is just coming to terms with the fact that maybe men can be different. That some of us may actually have feelings, want to dress differently, may actually enjoy the softer things in life and not be stereo typed as tarzan like figures who wear trousers, play footy, get drunk and bash each other up. (Bit of Auzzie culture there!) Not only that but that we can be good husbands, lovers, workers and fathers still.
Its all possible in a skirt, believe it or not

The other thing we need is a serious fashion designer on our side. Not one that designs for the catwalk but one who asks men already in skirts what they really want and then puts those designs on display. To many designers are way of the mark which is doing us no favours either. If a designer is serious about designing mens skirts he should also wear them full time, only then will he understand.

[skirtyscot]

each one of us no doubt has skirts that we love to wear but these skirts would not be a good idea to wear in public.

Another "no, not me" to that one.

Every time I go out in public skirted I am always conscious of one goal; AM I BEING A GOOD ADVOCATE FOR MEN’S SKIRTS?

You have loftier aims than me. I just want to wear something that I am happy with. I suppose that is my bit of advocacy, but it is not what I think about.

I really believe that if we are going to make inroads in seeing men’s skirt as a trend and mainstream, we not only need to get out there wearing skirts, but we must also MAKE IT LOOK GOOD! If its going to be, then it up to us. We need to really start thinking about the impression we are making. ... I want to suggest to us all about BECOMING SKILLED IN THE ART OF STYLING so that we are always good advocates when in the public eye.

Here's what I do about styling.

My style is pretty conservative when I'm wearing trousers, and just as conservative when skirted, except of course that I am going against everyone's expectations by wearing a skirt. Jeans, T-shirt or polo shirt, jumper ... substitute long denim skirt for jeans and I'm ready to go. All my trousers are self-coloured, and so are all of my skirts. To the onlooker, a man in a skirt has crossed a line and looks very odd (to put it politely), and so to make it look good I feel I have to stay fairly close to that line. If my skirt was to be flowery or shiny or frilly, I would be futher over the line and away off into terra incognita. I would not feel comfortable, and what chance would I have of making it look good?

I do pay more attention to the overall effect of my outfit when skirted. Casually dressed in trousers or shorts, I tend to pull any shirt on. Whatever comes to hand first is usually OK so long as I avoid a few colour combinations that Mrs SS always counsels me against (by which I mean she complains when I wear them), such as brown trousers and blue shirt. Skirts have different lengths and shapes, so even sticking to the same old colours and fabrics that I have always worn, there is more to get right (or wrong). This is just another aspect of not going to far beyond that line.

I avoid a combination of items that might be thought of as feminine. I have a pink shirt for work, which I wear with a suit and a tie. Nobody has ever suggested it is effeminate, but I would not wear it with a skirt. Pink plus skirt would be too much, even if the pink is clearly a man's shirt. The same goes for my bright green shirt which I sometimes wear to work: bright + skirt would be too much as well. Ditto tights, which I am ambivalent about anyway, so it's long skirts for me in the winter. (And other cold times of year!)

All in all, not very skilled, really. Maybe I am being too timid. Maybe I will get braver in time. But I feel it's still a good look for me now, and that is the best way I can bang the drum for men's skirts.

[crfriend]

The big difficulty is men still need to be seen as masculine by their choice of dress.

I think an alternate wording to the above statement might be somewhat more accurate: "The big difficulty is that many men still feel the need to be seen as masculine by their choice of dress." That having been said, I am a bit of an "old school" type that likes to know, at a glance, what I'm looking at; this is why I do not go for, or even like, extreme gender-bending by either men or women.

Women on the other hand have managed to change the way society views them. Once they had to dress to look feminine...now they are totally accepted dressed as men. They can even wear a suit with trousers to a business meeting. They have basicly been accepted in anything but it has taken many years from when they first pulled on a pair of trousers to actually achieve this.

It's worth recalling that equality, at least in mathematics, is transitive. That is, "If A is equal to B then B is equal to A." If the "then" conjunction in the above statement is violated the entire statement is invalid. So, when we talk about wanting men and women to be more equal we are talking about more than just what sorts of clothes we're "allowed" or "supposed" to wear. We're also talking about wage-parity and male privilege and dominance in the workplace as well.

The world is just coming to terms with the fact that maybe men can be different. That some of us may actually have feelings, want to dress differently, may actually enjoy the softer things in life and not be stereo typed as tarzan like figures who wear trousers, play footy, get drunk and bash each other up. (Bit of Auzzie culture there!) Not only that but that we can be good husbands, lovers, workers and fathers still. Its all possible in a skirt, believe it or not

Precisely, and I view that growing acceptance appreciatively. How much of it is due to the current economic climate remains to be seen, but hopefully it'll persist if we are ever able to scramble out of the current hole we're in. I feel sorry for the guy who wants to get out of the "Tarzan of the Apes" stereotype (thanks for that!) but who feels that he needs to "keep up appearances" lest the neighbours ask questions.

The other thing we need is a serious fashion designer on our side. Not one that designs for the catwalk but one who asks men already in skirts what they really want and then puts those designs on display. To many designers are way of the mark which is doing us no favours either. If a designer is serious about designing mens skirts he should also wear them full time, only then will he understand.

Marc Jacobs is known to wear skirts in public, but whether he does that on a day-to-day basis remains unknown; he does show up at his shows so attired, though, so he's got some experience with the notion.