skirtcafe.org

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60464528
"Ant and Dec in drag: 'This will change LGBTQ+ children's lives"

There has been much chatter in the way that celebrities being non-conforming help bring about a shift in attitude.
Well guys, here we have it, and it has to be true, the BBC says so!
Even taking out the "LGBTQ+", I cannot see how this will improve things for little Anthony or Declan when they decide on their clothes and cosmetics to wear at school today.
Sorry but this is just another hype-filled stunt with no great bearing on normal life or lives.
It will give the playground bullies the opportunity to widen their field of operations I guess and these two another whopping great fee.
Could I be wrong and Joe Public just stupid enough to be swayed by such as this though?
Could I be accused of treason for questioning the wisdom of Auntie BBC?
Steve?

I find drag off-putting and detrimental to “the cause”. For a variety of reasons - not just my prudish nature. I find it revolting, an affront to women and creepy. I think the majority of “normal” people see it as either weird and the worst stereotype of the guy in a skirt or they see it as a lark and it further perpetuates the division of clothing between the sexes.

To be honest, I'm not a fan of drag. Drag is not crossdressing, it's a performance art. Deliberately over the top.

That said, I go by the theory that people are mostly frightened and notice things that do not recognise. If such shows cause people's brains to be adjusted to not see them as unusual, then a normal man in a skirt will attract much less notice. And the nobs can vent their anger at TV screens instead of random people on the street.

I wouldn't be surprised if it gave children nightmares! Not a fan of drag - the makeup is such a parody. The normal woman just wouldn't wear their makeup in such a way. It may qualify as an art form but I've never watched RuPaul or anything similar. No, I don't think that it will do anything for us. It was just one of their stunts done for the shock effect. I'm no fan of theirs, don't find either of them funny and can't find any humour in their stuff.

Another one here who doesn't like drag. I am uncomfortable with it - the men who do it are usually gay and I think by their extreme parody they are mocking women. Why? I tried watching Drag Race because the critics raved about it but I could not see the entertainment in it. I am not opposed to it - I just don't see the point of it, from the perspective of the practitioner or the spectator. I know that Grayson Perry is not in the same category and he seems a very nice intelligent person, but the outfits are a bit creepy (but then so is his pottery), whereas he himself is not creepy at all. Drag is completely different from ordinary cross-dressing, which is different again from being trans and also different from men in skirts. Unfortunately all four are confused by the public to the extent that anyone who wears a skirt or dress is perceived as diverging from their birth gender, and modern woke society bends over backwards to accommodate this perceived new gender identification whether the person involved wants it or not! It is better than the old Bible-thumping condemnation but I wish people would relax about the whole thing.

As for Ant and Dec, I could not understand how they got dressed and made up that elaborately in the time available.

I find drag off-putting too and as others have said, I feel that it isn't helpful to the men in skirts 'cause'.
If cause is the right word to apply to us skirted folk.

Well, that was a cringe-worthy read.

Bluntly, drag freaks me out more than a little bit. It's absolutely over-the-top performance art -- and a rather bad parody performance at that. I'm sure that there are those who appreciate the look, but I am not one of them.

It takes all sorts. I generally find drag entertaining. Yes, it's performance art, based on a combination of pantomime, music hall, and camp comedy, but I've no problem with it. When I was younger, I was quite a fan of Danny la Rue, and later Lily Savage. I watched a bit of Ru Paul, and though a lot of the language is rather vulgar for my taste, some of the costumes are extremely elegant, and I don't see why the biological sex of the wearer is relevant. But I agree that celebrities dressing up in drag does practically nothing for any cause relating to male-female fashion stereotyping, or any other gender issues (though I do note the lady in the video clip hoping that it will take the pressure off a bullied 12-year-old). Much more helpful to have celebrities who dress consistently - or even occasionally - in a way that less theatrically challenges the tedious norm, even if (like Grayson Perry) they can seem a bit over the top. I for one was a bit disappointed when Eddie Izzard effectively came out as a trans-woman, since it meant that s/he was no longer really acting as an inspiration for cis-men pushing the gender boundaries.

I'd have no problem looking gorgeous if I could, but (a) I'm more than a bit old for that now, and (b) the wrong shape, and (c) a terrible actor, and (d) way too much of an introvert. (And you don't have to be gay to do drag, as proved by at least one straight contestant in Ru Paul's drag race, but it probably helps.)

Myopic Bookworm wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 2:44 pmIt takes all sorts. I generally find drag entertaining. Yes, it's performance art, based on a combination of pantomime, music hall, and camp comedy, but I've no problem with it.

My issue is that drag produces looks that aren't even human; it's a grotesque parody. Is the typical performer in drag anybody you'd like to have on your arm?

I'm all for making the world a more beautiful place; I just don't think that drag contributes much to that possibly to save a few people.

Coder wrote: ↑Tue Feb 22, 2022 4:15 am I find drag off-putting and detrimental to “the cause”. For a variety of reasons - not just my prudish nature. I find it revolting, an affront to women and creepy. I think the majority of “normal” people see it as either weird and the worst stereotype of the guy in a skirt or they see it as a lark and it further perpetuates the division of clothing between the sexes.

I'm glad it's not just me! I keep reading about the trend of drag queens reading stories to children in the library and my first reaction is, if I had a child he or she would never get near that nutter.

My perception is that gays generally don't dress as women, at least the gay men I know don't. Or am I over-simplifying?

I don't think guys dressing up in drag will help the LGBTQ+ community any more than playing "black face" would help dispell racial tensions. I think the idea is rather crude and insensitive, making a parody of the people they purport to support.

Drag is a form of theatre and obviously some people enjoy performing and others enjoy watching. There are various levels from crude, hairy men with beer bellies, to flamboyant trans people.
A festival of drag has developed close to home with the Broken Heel Festival in Broken Hill, after the movie "Priscilla" was filmed there. Probably a lot of people who go to it also go to the White Cliffs Gymkhana, a macho mixture of riding boots, hats, beer, bulls and dust.
I have so far avoided Broken Heel, rescheduling my shopping trips to not coincide with it .......... mainly because I wear a skirt and it works against skirts being accepted as menswear.

Ralph wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:02 pm I'm glad it's not just me! I keep reading about the trend of drag queens reading stories to children in the library and my first reaction is, if I had a child he or she would never get near that nutter.

One thing to bear in mind. In many parents'' eyes you are that "nutter".
The drag artiste is just viewed on the same level as a pantomime dame, hard on the eye but essentially harmless.
In the kids' minds, gods, they don't care at all provided the story is to their liking.
May not make them more accepting of differences but don't harden the attitude either by instilling mistrust too early either.
That said, I think that this thread is one of the few to have brought out a fairly broad consensus of opinion amongst our esteemed patrons.
I guess, the message is clear, Ant and Dec are just not the social reformers that they may think they are.
Steve.

Similar comments have been made on transgender websites.  It does none of us any favours and the ignorance of whoever promoted the idea is beyond belief.

STEVIE wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:25 amOne thing to bear in mind. In many parents'' eyes you are that "nutter".

Oh, I have no illusions otherwise. We see a diverse spectrum of nonconformist behaviour from "slightly outside the mainstream" to "danger to self and others", but the vast majority of the populace just sees "normal" and "nutter" with no shades of grey in between.

Particularly in my part of the world, the US "deep south" where violent hate crimes still occur on any man who deviates even slightly from the rigid expectations of appearance and behaviour.