Gender Non-Conformance and Religion

[STEVIE]

...

More likely they want do everything, wigs makeup etc. Why? Because the want to. Or maybe they think they have to, they can't just throw on a skirt and sit there in a skirt or a dress, drinking Guinness and smoking a pipe.

...

And there is the problem.

Why would anyone think they have to do it all or nothing? This idea is what we need to fight against. Otherwise, all we have is the ever shrinking "man box" of acceptable male attire and behavior.

Dust and Barley are right on! I have wondered many times if there would be so many people completely crossdressing or actually wanting to transition MTF if they felt that they could just put on a skirt, heels, and whatever items that they like and go about their life without facing judgement. Also Females wearing male attire are more readily accepted. That could be the reason that you don’t see as many people transitioning from FTM.

Does this make sense? What are your thoughts?

I was that "anyone" who thought it had to be "all or nothing", and I have stated that here on several occasions.
It's simple, female clothes can only ever be acceptable on a female so therefore a feminine appearance is assumed as a necessity.
A subterfuge, a disguise, a lie by any standards and a hard one to maintain too.
Dust and Barley are certainly right, but the idea is far from new and the kilt as an ersatz acceptable manskirt is a very good example.
Perhaps the "Kilt" has prevented more MTF transitions than we will ever know, I'd concede that as a point in it's favour.
Returning to the religious aspect, all that has done is heaped on the guilt, helped with nothing and done untold harm to any number of men and boys.
My life improved very dramatically when I threw on a skirt and went to the pub for a Guinness and a smoke of the old pipe.
Steve

[kingfish]

I am the great grandson of a southern baptist preacher, and have the following observations regarding my skirt wearing in the remarkably conservative region of Armstrong County TX, and also a mind-blower that happened one morning watching one of the 5am religious shows.

First my parent's reaction when I first told them and the reaction(s) of other people in their old home town.

My parents and family accepted my alternate taste(s) as just and moral. I've been in kilt plenty of times to their church in rural NW Texas. I chickened out and didn't full-on dress like the ladies (I really did want to wear the prairie skirt), but the kilt did put forth a better sense of formality and respect for the environment. And everyone was okay with it, and many even reacted in positively to the look. To further define how rural and traditional Claude Texas, my dad's home town is, It's the county seat, covers about 2-3 square miles of real estate, has a population around 1100, and is rather proud of the fact that the famous Charles Goodnight had is home just east of town. And they were good with my wearing a kilt everywhere.

My context has always been to be true to myself.
Denying my male configuration was out of the question. I was (and still are) adamant that I'm not looking to become a female, or trying to pass as one. I wasn't dressing girly to gain access to women only spaces (for naughty purposes), nor was I trying to emulate some pagan goddess, or serve one through sexual favors. These statements knocked down just about every argument against my chosen attire. I considered my breaking the rules about what men should or shouldn't wear as me being true to myself in the face of standards created by the society we're in.

But this is just background. Now back top that mind-blower, or dare I say revelation.
It was a couple weeks ago when I heard Romans 12:2 get quoted.

Here's the NIV translation of that:

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

That first phrase, that actual recommendation, hit me like cinder block and put a biblical foundation underneath my disregard of the gender based clothing standards. I had always considered them man-made and therefore a part of the pattern of this world.

[Uncle Al]

Uncle Al

[Ray]

Great picture, Steve!

[STEVIE]

Great picture, Steve!

Thanks Ray, that was the very first day that I had worn a skirt at work.
By the Gods, I earned that pint of the Black Nectar that day.
Sadly not armed with a pint of Guinness, but to go back to the religious slant this is a shot taken in my former Sunday School in March 2025.

20250315_140050 Copy.jpg

Sadly in places of worship to a multitude of Gods, men, women and children are still being taught that being "truly" themselves is somehow sinful and to be despised.

Steve.
Alcohol or not who else cans say that they propped up the bar in their former Sunday School while wearing a dress?

[Jim]

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

That first phrase, that actual recommendation, hit me like cinder block and put a biblical foundation underneath my disregard of the gender based clothing standards. I had always considered them man-made and therefore a part of the pattern of this world.

The branch of Christianity that I'm part of, the Anabaptists, has traditionally emphasized this verse. Non-conformity to the world is valued. Unfortunately, however, in many places, conformity to the church is pushed.

[STEVIE]

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Kingfish, this is none the less a claim to know the will of a god, whose very existence is debatable.
You wore the kilt as opposed to the preferred prairie skirt as a mark of respect to the "environment".
Respect for your God or the other human worshippers, if I may ask?
I am not challenging your personal faith or beliefs, but that little passage makes not one iota of a difference.

Unfortunately, however, in many places, conformity to the church is pushed.

Certainly not limited to Christianity Jim. nor just the males of the species.
People across the world and a multitude of faiths will still be deterred from being true to themselves in the name of religious dogma.
Conformity is not just pushed, it can be rigorously enforced in all sorts of ways.
Steve.

[kingfish]

Kingfish, this is none the less a claim to know the will of a god, whose very existence is debatable.
You wore the kilt as opposed to the preferred prairie skirt as a mark of respect to the "environment".
Respect for your God or the other human worshippers, if I may ask?
I am not challenging your personal faith or beliefs, but that little passage makes not one iota of a difference.

It was respect for the other worshipers, my parents neighbors. Streotypes also happen to be beliefs too, and discretion is the better part of valor.

For people who don't believe, that passage really is just a bunch of words in what amounts to a morality guide.
But for my fellow believers, those words provide foundational truths. They are truths that help make our skirt wearing a moral and recommended act.

Y'know, debate leverage.