Difficulties with partners

[TheSkirtedMan]

Sinned.

Excuse me for not referring to you as Dennis. I do not actively post comments on this forum so I do not think I am at liberty. I can spend weeks away and mostly read what is said not being able to add comment without repeating others.

I have been reading this thread with great sadness. I have noted many a member saying their partners do not agree with men in skirts, some have a degree of tolerance and others like myself have no problem with partners. I do not think those on the outside of your life can give real advice as we are not there and do not see what the situation is like with regards handling. All I can say is you must do what is right for you. Your marriage is obviously very strong for you, and yes your wife too. Life with a partner is about team work and when this isn't so, even if only on one subject it can become hard, wearing, and may eventually start to drive a wedge in the relationship. You must do what you feel is right for you. If taking a compromise at your expense and if need be curtail you skirt wearing then that must be considered. Even moving on.

I strongly disagree these days with anybody who says to me do as I say not as I do. I do walk away from any one who is like that and will not show any respect for me. Who is at fault, who is selfish, who is being inconsiderate applies equally to both sides. It's like all arguments for or against men in skirts applies equally to women in trousers. This is where compromise comes in.

As has been said, Counselling may not work for you when you wife will not even attempt to listen and yes as has been said she is quiet possibly fearful of outside comment. Becareful with Counsellors, I hear often those that go, it is always discussed as it being the man at fault. We experienced it ourselves directly.

I'm lucky in that my wife embraces full freedom of choice and expression for both men and women. When we both realised in 2010 that my frustration of being restricted by our perception of public reaction my wifes sole concern was going out and neither of us encountered actual physical assult and repeated bad language. I was prepared to take the move, I knew time had come for me that I wasn't to hide anymore. We decided to go to a Counsellor to discuss this matter with a third party. I had only just started researching men in skirts on the net and it was still very new. This Counsellor was derogatory to me as a man, and used derogatory terms for my choice of clothing. We complained, she denied and the establishment closed ranks. I went to my Doctor and asked if he could suggest a neutral Counsellor and she was perfect. Very very good. 4 weeks later we were out publicly and my skirt wearing is now absolute anywhere unless the situation makes trousers more sensible. I accept my wife was/is open minded, which is important.

Taking small steps as you say you are doing can and will help but I must stress what my Counsellor told us both - you must be yourself, and you must not lead your life based upon others expectations upon you. It will affect you as a person. This Counselling helped my wife indirectly with other aspects of her life just by adapting what we heard on issues that she let bother her. I'll be honest I have too. You could go to a Counsellor on your own to get impartial advice for you.

I have often seen on this forum good supporting advice to others. You will at least have an outlet to let you feelings go free.

I just wish I could help your wife see that clothing is simply clothing and does not change the person within and certainly does not define a person with regards dominance, subserveant or other attributes that society gets hung up with.

I'm sure you scour the net for articles on men in skirts. I do and place many on my site on this subject. Many are written by women and are very supportive with open minded thinking. If only your wife could look at these third party articles.

When I went public, the locals who turned away from me were not worth knowing and did not form an active part of our lives. Those that were still are and we have gained more since. Many a macho style bloke like builders for example engage in conversation with me. Friends are still friends, family well on the whole that is good, but one or two keep a low profile even tried forcing their expectations upon me. I refused. Friends are more important and these few family members are not immidiate family.

I'm sure your wifes concerns from what I have read is simply concern about what others think of her and the possible effect on her by others reactions to you. You may know other reasons, but like everyone on this forum, we have never met. As is so often said on this forum, the vast majority are not phased by a man in a skirt, and those that do are just ships that pass in the night. My choice of clothing is literally womenswear as defined by society labels, long skirts, patterned and plain, tops, cardigans scarfs and apart from occasional looks life goes on. I retain male sandals/shoes, do not wear makeup, ear rings, wigs or accessories. I am a man who embraces character and personality in his clothing and those in my life embrace it without question. I just hope you can get you wife to look at third party articles or see other men in skirts. Best not let her look at this forum, she may reinforce her stance when she hears others are like her.

[Sinned]

Thank you all, especially for TSM, Moon, Jenn, Carl and others. I don't trust counsellors and not sure that it would help, maybe, maybe not. We had a massive row the other night and it has taken us a day or two to calm down. Yesterday as I left for work I said to her that I had left some sites on my laptop for her to look at. She has not said that she had looked at them but I did notice that one of the sites certainly had as it was open at one of the last pages. I don't know if she has looked at any of the other three. That's more than she has ever done before. I will leave them up for her to see and later I will ask her about them. The site in question was about gender and its difference to sex. Maybe this is the opening, I will ask her tonight. I have read all your comments with interest and she does know that I go out skirted when she isn't around. We will work something out within the bounds of marriage, not outside.

[Kilty]

Dennis, it does sound like a bad, uncomfortable situation you face and I am sorry for any flippant remarks I may have made regarding what is more or less treading on eggshells every single day due to your sartorial choice. Although I think out of frustration I would just throw a skirt on and let her deal with it, that may not work for you.

I do think she is calling your bluff though and expects you to back down as that has always worked. The fact you fight shows how much skirts mean to you, so perhaps slowly you may win the war. Those fortunate to be single or with partners who are open minded can so readily say what action they would take.

I do hope things sort out, but I think it may be a bumpy ride. Hopefully she's read those web pages, but if she's determined to stick to her guns, you should endeavour to stick to yours, regardless of consequence. We cannot worry about what has not yet happened.

Take care

[mishawakaskirt]

You're right, Carl, that likely the first thing women think, upon seeing a man in a skirt, is "gay". The irony of that double standard by women, Carl, is that if we dared ask whether wearing jeans and T shirts makes a woman a lesbian, they would laugh, and say its okay because it is accepted fashion, despite it having been lifted from men. The sad part of the irony is that the bias against something traditionally feminine on a man implies a negative association with feminine apparel, revealing their own sexist bias against their own gender. After all, if women construe a negative image in garmenture that (falsely) implies femininity, then women must regard their own gender negatively, as if inferior. Sad and thoughtless, really.

Well said,
Me and my wife butt heads on this one, she knows I own some skirts, but she don't want to se me in them or have anything to do with them. Why do they assume If a guy wants to wear a skirt. That antomaticaly makes them gay, or some kind of off wierdo?. I like skirts, do not desire to be a woman, have a sex change, or date men. Should bring this up again, does jeans and t shirts make a woman a lesbian? If that the case then 90 persent of the women we know are.
A very big double standard, for sure.

Mishawakaskirt. @2wayskirt

[Sinned]

kilty, you needn't apologise for your remarks. After all these years I don't take offence easily. I went out for a full breakfast this morning as I had little to eat yesterday and of course I went skirted in an above the knee brown skirt as MOH was at work. I have done this several times recently and the waitress is getting used to me I think. It's going to be a long haul and I'm prepared to chip away at it bit by bit. There are very few things I ask of life and my wife and this is probably the only thing I have really stuck my guns on. I am generally fairly lasses-faire and laid back. Watch this space.

[Kilty]

kilty, you needn't apologise for your remarks. After all these years I don't take offence easily. I went out for a full breakfast this morning as I had little to eat yesterday and of course I went skirted in an above the knee brown skirt as MOH was at work. I have done this several times recently and the waitress is getting used to me I think. It's going to be a long haul and I'm prepared to chip away at it bit by bit. There are very few things I ask of life and my wife and this is probably the only thing I have really stuck my guns on. I am generally fairly lasses-faire and laid back. Watch this space.

Good news, and good clothing choice. I do hope it was a pencil skirt

[TheSkirtedMan]

I don't trust counsellors and not sure that it would help, maybe, maybe not.

As with all professions there are bad apples. The majority do the job and well. Both my wife and I had doubts on counsellors. As I said in my post above, my wife was not the problem, it was the stepping into the unknown publicly and yes I had them too but not as much as my wife because I was by then prepared to have a go. A that time it was only me and my wife. I hadn't looked on the internet before then and when I did I read positive and negative in equal quantity and a further 2 years before I came across this forum. Also in 2010 we had never seen a man in a skirt and since then 6 years later only 5 in the flesh and then not able to talk to. These days comments on the net is mostly by far positive comments on men in skirts. Not wishing to loose friends by discussing what we were contemplating we took another gamble and went to a counsellor despite our reservations on them so we could bounce off our thoughts. Despite our first encounter of a 'bad apple' we followed our path as we both knew something, some how had to help us both. As I said in my reply above the second counsellor was excellent, very impartial, very neutral. I had heard if they do the job right you end up answering your own questions and thoughts. A genuine counsellor will never tell you the answer but guide you to finding your own answer. It is very clever, for us it is, and it is amazing how you see yourself and the problem in a very enlightening way. After seeing this counsellor we spoke to friends openly and that gave confidence as they were and are happy to go out and about with a man in a skirt.

I floated you on your own seeing a counsellor as a way for you seeing yourself and quite possibly your wifes approach to the matter in a new and refreshing way. Bouncing off a third party who is not biased and to be fair other men in skirts are biased on the subject even if not intentionally. A third party who is neutral and has no axe to grind can let you see problems, concerns even queries in a very different light and that in turns allows you the person to act/react differently.

From my experience, I am a convert on a counsellor on issues that are locked into a repeating and never ending circle - provided it is a good counsellor. You will know in the first session. They were not expensive, mine was £35 for an hour and trust me an hour is long enough. Your mind will buzz if the counsellor guides you because your thoughts on many things in differing directions comes to the fore. My wife had a big occupation problem that she was finding hard to manage and was grinding her down at the same time as she watched me question women in trousers why not men in skirts and she went back to the counsellor as soon as our concerns on skirting in public had been discussed.

It is your decision, I do not want to appear insisting but feel based upon the benefit of my experience if one is in a repeating circle on a problem it doesn't help the individuals if the circle is not broken. We have two friends who ended up separating because they too got into a circle on life and both became set in their ways. 5 years on still not divorced because both of them are now in a circle on that, not to be the first to start it, yet they live separately in all aspects!

Your marriage and love for each other is quite clear from what you say but no unresolved issue involving refusal, standoffs, arguments etc can protect a loving marriage. Something will give in time be it you and skirts, your wife starting to listen or what has happened to our friends. These friends of ours have both said they look at us in amazement as to how our life has boomed and blossomed over the last 5 years yet they still cannot see that they can too either together or separately. Neither are doing anything except work and sleep 5 years after separating and many an argument in the years leading to it.

Just my thoughts based upon experience. Like all on this forum and genuine people outside nobody wants to see anybody under a negative cloud.

I'll leave it at that and monitor the thread.

Jeremy Hutchinson

[Sinned]

kilty, it was an ordinary, light brown A line skirt. I don't own any pencil skirts, have not tried any and don't feel that they are for me. They don't fit in with the particular style that I have in my mind. Sorry.

Jeremy, I will ponder on your remarks. I really have very little experience of counselling and wouldn't know how to search for one. MOH is back into normal mode now, more or less as if nothing has happened. I need to talk to her rationally if that is possible, and soon. I still think that all this can be salvaged but I will do some research on counselling.

[ElenaSkacenko]

If your partner does not accept you as you are and with the tastes you have,
then they are probably not the one for you.

[TheSkirtedMan]

Sinned (Dennis)

It is a difficult situation, and talking, trying to talk rationally with your other half is a good move. As you have said before, take it one step at a time, small steps.

Counselling may not be the answer but it helped us, not that we had an issue with skirts or with ourselves. It helped prepare us for society and the big wide world we were to enter in a format not considered everyday normality. Try your Doctor for one, he/she will know of some. NHS will take many, many months on Counselling waiting time. It is recognised but not considered priority unless you are at the depths like suicide. The one I had stepped away from the NHS as she strongly felt many in society needed help. Going part time she could provide input and persuasion via the local NHS but aligned herself on the rest of her time privately with NHS GP's locally. Now the NHS embrace counselling she has gone back full time as she believes in the NHS and is now a full time counselling with them. No doubt she could earn more privately but that was not her principle. She now only has left the door open for the clients she saw privately just in case they would need a "top up" if life gets too much. In theory that shouldn't be necessary.

Good luck and all the best. At least you have this forum to vent off.

Jeremy

[Kilty]

kilty, it was an ordinary, light brown A line skirt. I don't own any pencil skirts, have not tried any and don't feel that they are for me. They don't fit in with the particular style that I have in my mind. Sorry.

Jeremy, I will ponder on your remarks. I really have very little experience of counselling and wouldn't know how to search for one. MOH is back into normal mode now, more or less as if nothing has happened. I need to talk to her rationally if that is possible, and soon. I still think that all this can be salvaged but I will do some research on counselling.

Could you try counselling, it could make a world of good. I used to volunteer for an organisation called NAPALM (National Association for People Abused in Loveless Marriages) before we lost funding and the Care Quality Commission had us disbanded in all seriousness, why not meet up with other unbifurcated men in your area and visit them for a jaunt or day out, ie to the pub, etc? Perhaps the Mrs feels its too much over insistence on the matter and she "wants her husband back" (I hate those clichés too ) before skirts became your main pursuit. Yes she will worry about what others think, how the kids are affected, albeit irrational. If she switches between calm and rage about the topic, perhaps she needs input from someone outside the situation, who can help her realise such sartorial choice is not the end of the world.

Hope things sort out one way or another. To quote someone from a popular kilt forum :- A Life lived in Fear, is A Life Half Lived

[hairy]

I know I don't have trouble with my wife and my skirt wearing, but we do have our fair share of problems with in the marriage. There are problems in every relationship and it has to be worked at all the time. Yes I'm lucky about my skirting but not so in many other departments so I can understand where Dennis is coming from, I wouldn't want to part from my wife but stay unhappy for many other reasons.

[Elisabetta]

Just curious but for the ones that have been married a long time how do you guys make it so long? Do you ever fight about things other than skirts like intimacy or family , work related issues or is it just skirts? If so how do you get through them? What do you do in regards to them?

[Caultron]

Just curious but for the ones that have been married a long time how do you guys make it so long? Do you ever fight about things other than skirts like intimacy or family , work related issues or is it just skirts? If so how do you get through them? What do you do in regards to them?

This is impossible to explain in a few short paragraphs, and it's different for every couple.

However, in my case, 45 years ago my wife and I each promised, "...until death do us part," and we just never let any issues jeopardize that. Win, lose, take the middle ground, put it aside and take it up later... there's always some strategy.

[Kilty]

Just curious but for the ones that have been married a long time how do you guys make it so long? Do you ever fight about things other than skirts like intimacy or family , work related issues or is it just skirts? If so how do you get through them? What do you do in regards to them?

A good marriage is built on the foundations of monotony and routine The Mrs only just tolerates kilts, jean skirts at a push, so the more formal ones I save for visiting friends such as SkirtsDad We fight over other normal things like regular people, I try not to make skirts the be all and end all focus in life. It's about giving way to each other at times. We are all at different stages along this road. Some have wives who are very tolerant, others it is a definite no, some from this site have even transitioned, some live alone so the issue of domestic struggle is not there. Some can wear the most fabulous ensembles, others are a bit more conservative in their dress.

Getting through arguments can be a case of just letting the dust settle and laying low. If my partner absolutely hated any fotm of unbifurcated clothing it would be a problem but not the end of the world. Kilts are a male garment so I can get awsy with that. No clothes should be more important than a relationship, IMHO