Difficulties with partners

[partlyscot]

My experience seems to be that most women are not bothered by being helped by me at work wearing a skirt, that of course does not mean they would date me. I have had several conversations with a number of those women who definitely gave me the impression that asking for their phone number would have got a favourable response. The really good news was that pretty much all of those would have been ones I would have asked for their number if I had been on the hunt.

That was a horribly clunky paragraph, time for bed.

[Grok]

This is a value point in wearing a skirt publicly especially if one is "unattached". The skirt serves as an excellent "Bozo filter" in that women who cannot think outside the narrow confines of "normalcy" (read, oppressively "average" and "mundane") won't be attracted to you; they'll self-select out. Of course you will attract some real oddballs, but those can be dealt with on your terms instead of them dealing with you on theirs (or trying to). In this mode, one can be rigid and inflexible -- to be able to hold his ground with dignity and pride instead of cowering under the cover of "compromise".

And that answers why most men won't wear skirts. Generally, men are desperate to look good for women. It's all they think about, and most wouldn't dare do anything that might make them seem unattractive to the opposite sex. Even men who are already attached worry about chasing off their wife, and failing to find a replacement.

.

Which in turn explains explains the disappearance of companies that try to sell skirts for men. Too few men willing to try skirts, for fear of rejection.

[crfriend]

This is a value point in wearing a skirt publicly especially if one is "unattached". The skirt serves as an excellent "Bozo filter" in that women who cannot think outside the narrow confines of "normalcy" (read, oppressively "average" and "mundane") won't be attracted to you; they'll self-select out. Of course you will attract some real oddballs, but those can be dealt with on your terms instead of them dealing with you on theirs (or trying to). In this mode, one can be rigid and inflexible -- to be able to hold his ground with dignity and pride instead of cowering under the cover of "compromise".

And that answers why most men won't wear skirts. Generally, men are desperate to look good for women. It's all they think about, and most wouldn't dare do anything that might make them seem unattractive to the opposite sex. Even men who are already attached worry about chasing off their wife, and failing to find a replacement.

Which in turn explains explains the disappearance of companies that try to sell skirts for men. Too few men willing to try skirts, for fear of rejection.

What, pray tell then, explains the US male fascination with the entirely slovenly look of jeans, t-shirts, and ball-caps (a cancer that has spread far and wide) [0]? Unless, that is, women like their guys grubby so other women won't be attracted to 'em. (Or, perhaps, men are just too damn lazy to care.)

It's time to think outside the little box of circular reasoning. It's not hard. Really.

[0] Or the female equivalent of clam-diggers, t-shirts, and flip-flops on seemingly most women.

[Grok]

What, pray tell then, explains the US male fascination with the entirely slovenly look of jeans, t-shirts, and ball-caps (a cancer that has spread far and wide) [0]? Unless, that is, women like their guys grubby so other women won't be attracted to 'em. (Or, perhaps, men are just too damn lazy to care.)

It's time to think outside the little box of circular reasoning. It's not hard. Really.

[0] Or the female equivalent of clam-diggers, t-shirts, and flip-flops on seemingly most women.

[/quote]There does seem to be a long term trend towards informality, for both men and women.

[Caultron]

What, pray tell then, explains the US male fascination with the entirely slovenly look of jeans, t-shirts, and ball-caps (a cancer that has spread far and wide)...

It's an obsession with casual, perhaps based in residual rebellion to the dress codes of the past.

Hmm. rebellion to dress codes... Seems familiar... Where else have I heard that...

[dillon]

What, pray tell then, explains the US male fascination with the entirely slovenly look of jeans, t-shirts, and ball-caps (a cancer that has spread far and wide)...

It's an obsession with casual, perhaps based in residual rebellion to the dress codes of the past.

Hmm. rebellion to dress codes... Seems familiar... Where else have I heard that...

Tee-shirts and caps are a matter of comfort for me. I'm not much interested in costuming myself. If people see me skirted, they will see me as I prefer to be dressed, which isn't appreciably different from when I am in pants. If they don't like my style, let them look elsewhere.

[Kilty]

This is a value point in wearing a skirt publicly especially if one is "unattached". The skirt serves as an excellent "Bozo filter" in that women who cannot think outside the narrow confines of "normalcy" (read, oppressively "average" and "mundane") won't be attracted to you; they'll self-select out. Of course you will attract some real oddballs, but those can be dealt with on your terms instead of them dealing with you on theirs (or trying to). In this mode, one can be rigid and inflexible -- to be able to hold his ground with dignity and pride instead of cowering under the cover of "compromise".

And that answers why most men won't wear skirts. Generally, men are desperate to look good for women. It's all they think about, and most wouldn't dare do anything that might make them seem unattractive to the opposite sex. Even men who are already attached worry about chasing off their wife, and failing to find a replacement.

.

Which in turn explains explains the disappearance of companies that try to sell skirts for men. Too few men willing to try skirts, for fear of rejection.

And a lot of the skirts look awful or are way too overpriced or badly advertised (remembering CitySkirt where they named the skirts after tough areas of the city, like the Trenton, and the subsequent teasing from bloggers saying "what man would dare wear this thing in Trenton" etc)

Kilts are having a resurgence in Southern England of all places, the only type of skirt widely accepted at the moment. Some of the Midas skirts looked good, but I used it more as a reference and bought similar skirts off ebay for £70 less

New Male Fashion blog shows designers are trying to bring in the men's skirt, and designs seem less outlandish so perhaps one day it will happen. The likes of Justin Bieber and Jayden Smith are wearing skirts from time to time, and it seems to be a thing with some Asian boy bands where one of them is skirted. Rough Copy, an X Factor band in the UK did it for some time with a skirted member, and of course Seann Miley Moore is nearly always skirted, so who knows what is around the corner

[Grok]

Unfortunately, I have to agree...many of the skirts offered looked uninspired/uninspiring at best.

[moonshadow]

What, pray tell then, explains the US male fascination with the entirely slovenly look of jeans, t-shirts, and ball-caps (a cancer that has spread far and wide)...

It's an obsession with casual, perhaps based in residual rebellion to the dress codes of the past.

Hmm. rebellion to dress codes... Seems familiar... Where else have I heard that...

I thought about that too. However lots of women seem to really dig the "rough cut" look on guys. Then again, I guess it depends on the woman. Some women like the tight fitting cowboy jeans on men, boots, tucked in shirt and a cowboy hat. Others go for a more "casual" tee shirt and jeans look, worn out sneakers. Still others like the "ghetto" look. Baggy pants, showing their underwear, enormous cap, tilted to the side, and resting on top of his head, rather than fitting on the head. Then many women still like guys dressed in kilts.

However I don't now of too many women who find men in more feminine skirts attractive. Not impossible, but it will make finding a mate somewhat of a challenge and will require determination and patience. And you've GOT to have the right attitude! Confidence is a MUST, and it helps to have your sh!t together too... good job, not living in moms basement, financial security, etc.

Also, by employing the characteristics I mentioned above, I'd say you'd have a good chance at changing the negative opinions of current wives and girlfriends.

At the end of the day... I guess there's always someone for everyone.

[Sinned]

Had a MAJOR INCIDENT on Thursday, my day off. I defied her and went for something to our local Burger King in a skirt. Just a light brown knee-length skirt and she threw a major strop and I did too. Threatened D. I . V. O. R. C. E. the whole lot. Some harsh words were spoken, if not shouted, and in one of my less enlightened moments I said that if they, my family, were all clanning together against me then they could all go and f*** off and I wanted nothing to do with them as nobody was concerned about me and my feelings, although I was trying to be considerate and careful when I wore a skirt. My youngest son and his family were downstairs as they come for a meal on Thursdays so I don't know if they heard me or not. MOH slept downstairs Thursday evening and we didn't speak Friday. I had to go down in the early hours of this morning to coax her up to bed. Don't know what today will bring as she is still asleep or if there's been any change in attitude.

[Kirbstone]

Denis,

I'm not so confrontational and don't think it's worth it. I have learned long ago to accept MOH's antagonism and do my skirting/kilting when she's not around.

That way it's all pleasure and if you like, it's a separate part of my life.

Tom

[Ray]

I'd like to bring a positive note to what can at times be a pretty depressing thread.

Three days ago, my wife casually said to me, "I almost bought you a skirt today, but I didn't as I thought you might not like it as it's more knee length". I was floored. I almost always wear skirts around 18" in length so I was both amused and delighted by her comment. I have always worn skirts around her - not every day, but most days. She would not be seen with me in a skirt but is quite relaxed about my wearing a skirt around the house. Ditto hosiery, although she will grudgingly accept me in subtle sheer tights and shorts.

Anyway, I know how lucky I am to have her, and I don't push things (I occasionally wear heels, but she's not keen on them so I keep the wearing low key and infrequent). Having the ability to wear skirts at home is quite amazing. I really feel for those of you who do not enjoy that basic right. I once had a girlfriend who hated me wearing hosiery (I hadn't got into skirts at that time). I basically told her that I would give up hosiery if she gave up trousers. That relationship did not last long and I'm very relaxed about that fact.

[crfriend]

I'm saddened to hear that, Dennis. It's not worth blowing a relationship over something so trivial, especially after so long.

[moonshadow]

Had a MAJOR INCIDENT on Thursday, my day off. I defied her and went for something to our local Burger King in a skirt. Just a light brown knee-length skirt and she threw a major strop and I did too. Threatened D. I . V. O. R. C. E. the whole lot. Some harsh words were spoken, if not shouted, and in one of my less enlightened moments I said that if they, my family, were all clanning together against me then they could all go and f*** off and I wanted nothing to do with them as nobody was concerned about me and my feelings, although I was trying to be considerate and careful when I wore a skirt. My youngest son and his family were downstairs as they come for a meal on Thursdays so I don't know if they heard me or not. MOH slept downstairs Thursday evening and we didn't speak Friday. I had to go down in the early hours of this morning to coax her up to bed. Don't know what today will bring as she is still asleep or if there's been any change in attitude.

I have to admit, this incident is almost your standard run of the mill conflict at the Moon Shadow house. We have these about once per month, and they last about 24 hours. I honesty can't remember if we've ever had a blow out over my skirts, but we do have them over other things. Fights are never fun, but they do spell out everyones tolerance level, and I'm of the opinion that they can be somewhat healthy to a relationship. Fights are almost like a "self correcting" mechanism, when the lines are drawn, those involved with either come to some sort of compromise and life goes on, or the parties may ultimately split up, and life goes one. Either way, generally happiness is achieved. Granted the length of your relationship (40 years) makes this simple explanation somewhat more complex and changes the game a bit. 40 years is a lot to walk away from.

I suppose the thing about our fights is yes we are quick to conflict, but we are also quick to forget about it and forgive too. Blow ups happen fast here, and more often than not, I'm the one playing the "divorce" card, and of course, Jenn is always like "fine! whatever, I don't need you around anyway!", and I'm like "well f*** you and blah blah blah.." you know the normal fight stuff... However I can honestly say when I play the "D" card, at the time I meant it. I've even been so far as to be on craigslist looking at apartments sometimes, however before it actually comes down to me leaving, she comes around. And I'll admit, when I'm in the thick of the argument yes I hate life, curse the day I was born, yearn to go back to my high school days and start over, and so on and so forth, but it always seems to blow over in a day or two and life goes on. And what do we have to show for it at the end of it all?

Well.... I can wear my skirts... and the girls know they better stay out of my damned ice cream!

It's funny because I can remember one of our fights actually sort of took place on this board. I'm not going to reopen the wound again, but it's just interesting to look back on today. It may have seemed mild to you fellas, but behind the scenes all hell was breaking loose! Ahhhh... married life...

Anyway, I almost tend to agree with Carl, 40 years is a lot to walk over. On the other hand, I know what's going through your mind Dennis. You are in a quandary. You want your marriage to last, and yet the marriage is preventing something that you feel should be the most basic of rights. It's not a good state of mind for a man to be in. A man likes to think he's free to do as he pleases, and it's tough to grapple with when someone as close as his wife stands in the way.

I don't envy you Dennis, you've got some tough choices to make, and only you can make them. You know your situation better than anyone here. You've been married longer than I've been alive. On the one hand, I'd say divorces happen every day... screw it! But on the other hand.... 40 years is a long time. I can't fathom it because my memory simply doesn't go back that far. It's bigger than I can wrap my logical mind around so I'm probably not the one to be dispensing advice. I find it somewhat puzzling you've made it so far and apparently, big fights are somewhat rare for you and yours? I guess that's good, that you have gotten along so well over the years and all, but it seemed to have had the side effect of living a life where everything is in it's neat little place, and suddenly, Dennis wants to wear a skirt and the world stops spinning.

I don't know man... If I were you (and this is just what I'd do if I literally were).... I'd be finding me a tree to meditate beneath and contemplate this situation seriously. You can try to call her bluff... but you'd better be ready in the event she isn't bluffing and walks. If you call it, and she walks anyway. Personally, and some may disagree with me here on this, but if it comes to that point, I feel you should stick to your guns. If you give in at any point in the process then she's got you. When she comes back because you gave in, then you will forever be ashamed of yourself, and worse, she'll have you wrapped around her finger.

But again, I don't know... 40 years and all. Everything I said above would be my play if I were on that stage. But (as some have pointed out here) I can be pretty arrogant anyway. I'm the one that would live on the street to make a point. Naturally not everyone feels the same way I do. As always, your mileage may vary.

[Fred in Skirts]

Had a MAJOR INCIDENT on Thursday, my day off. I defied her and went for something to our local Burger King in a skirt. Just a light brown knee-length skirt and she threw a major strop and I did too. Threatened D. I . V. O. R. C. E. the whole lot. Some harsh words were spoken, if not shouted, and in one of my less enlightened moments I said that if they, my family, were all clanning together against me then they could all go and f*** off and I wanted nothing to do with them as nobody was concerned about me and my feelings, although I was trying to be considerate and careful when I wore a skirt. My youngest son and his family were downstairs as they come for a meal on Thursdays so I don't know if they heard me or not. MOH slept downstairs Thursday evening and we didn't speak Friday. I had to go down in the early hours of this morning to coax her up to bed. Don't know what today will bring as she is still asleep or if there's been any change in attitude.

Dennis, It seems this has been brewing for a long time. And as with the tea kettle the pressure builds up and something has to give. This was the pressure valve opening and venting all of those years of Pressure you have been living under. 40 years is a lot of time to have been together, just to toss it all away, BUT you have rights too. She has been keeping you under her thumb for so long that something had to give and it was your patience. Now that the whole thing is fully out in the open maybe (hopefully) she will see what she has been doing to you and come around. Stick to your guns and don't capitulate, work together to come to a compromise. If you just give in then you will be giving your skirts to the church donation window.

Hoping for a good resolution,

Fred