Dresses

[ChristopherJ]

Great thread. Thank you to all of the posters - especially Sashi and Bob.

I'm not interested in wearing a dress personally, but the thread has helped me to understand more about some of issues that are involved in men "dressing up".

Fascinating. Thanks.

[Bob]

Sashi... You might find that dresses like that look funny with a hairy chest. Solutions might involve wearing a shirt under the dress, or shaving your chest. By Jumper dress, I meant something you can wear a shirt underneath.

Also, those dresses have many elements considered feminine. The more feminine elements you wear at once, the harder it is to not look like you're trying to impersonate a woman.

[Departed Member]

Why not try a Kaftan (if, after all the coments here, you still want to 'risk' a dress?)? They're not a robe, but they are certainly 'gender-free'!

[Sashi]

However, on men it may be a bit different (mainly because mens' bodies are quite a bit different from womens' bodies). Getting a dress to "work" on a man seems to be difficult, at best.

...

Bob brought up a good many salient points on how the top half of the garment might work on men (mainly because men really have nothing of "interest" up top) in order to not appear silly or charicatured. Food for thought....

Yes, it definitely seems like there are a lot of things to think about when trying to pull it off. What it seems to me is that it will be quite hard to find a dress that works for a guy, and depending on your dimensions, body shape and whatnot, maybe next to impossible. I'm betting that on some guys a dress, even one designed for them, might not work right in the looks department, although I've been wrong before, so...

Now of course there are various dress-like clothing, but odds are (to my limited knowledge) I'm not gonna find quite the variety in physical and/or color/print design on them, or at least of the types of designs that interest me. This doesn't mean they aren't an alternative choice of clothing for me to try, just that they may not be able to replace a dress in my mind as something I'd like to wear around as part of my wardrobe.

It does make me believe that the best course of action, barring finding a good dress that works of course, is to design and make your own. I'm confident that with practice in sewing, I would be able to pull off something at the very least and maybe something quite good at the best. Of course clothing design, especially for the male body, isn't something I have heavily looked into. Keeping that in mind, I'm sure I can learn enough to give it a major attempt. The biggest problem is, how would you pull off a masculine look, while still maintaining a large variety of color and design choices? Maybe you can't, but it's at least something that I can look in to and attempt. Either way, I can at least find a design I like, or fuse several I like together, and have the added benefit of it matching my dimensions once I can make my own skirts/dresses/et cetera.

You are quite right in your premise here! Just be wary in your quest to go down the 'dress' road, that you don't totally alienate the folk who may only very begrudgingly 'accept' you in skirts, and even those who do. There'll be folk here who'll say, "Do your own thing! S*d everyone else!" Remember, there's only one person who can make that decision. You can always borrow a dress, try it on and take photos! It might just be enough to persuade you it's right/wrong - for you!

Exactly. The only person who can determine how to run my life, what's more important to me, et cetera, is me. Luckily I have one supporter, namely my sister. She is quite the open minded one, which at least means I have someone close to me to help me, like giving me her opinion on how I look, in addition to my opinion.

That does remind me though, about photos. While any one object can look completely different to any number of people, for some reason photos and video capture it and display it in such a way that the majority of people see it the same way. As long as that holds true, taking a photo of myself in a dress would give me an idea of what others would see, and therefore give me some inkling as to what they might think as well. Of course, I could always just go with a "screw them" attitude and do my own thing, but I don't exactly want to alienate my grandparents or parents. Although that won't shape my life in every way, it will make choices harder on me as to what is more important (in this case family acceptance or clothing freedom).

I've thought of making a sort of monk's robe, with a belt, and seeing how I feel about it. And in the summer, a Greek/Roman-style tunic might be very comfortable.

Of course, precisely because "men in robes" have associations in people's minds, they are more likely to assume you are doing it for religious or cultural reasons, and it will be harder to have it taken for just a fashion choice.

Hmm... a tunic could be another option to try out at one point. Not sure why it didn't click until now, especially since one of my favorite video game characters of all time wears a tunic (Link from The Legend of Zelda series of games). Seems like the "men in robes" association might need a good kick in the face like "men in skirts" (or dresses) does :rotfl:

Another fascinating topic!!! All of the social rules about men-in-skirts, fashion freedom, and what you read here apply to men-in-dresses as well. For men who want to see dresses as well as skirts become acceptable menswear - and I stand among these - this notion has some even deeper undercurrents!!..

...

The other rub is that the most attractive of women's dresses celebrate the most attractive of woman's bodies! Would this be true of men's dresses as well? For now, men are permitted the luxury of grey (or no) hair, beer guts, and other body imperfections, and are far less hung up on body image than women are. The weight loss industry in the USA (and very probably elsewhere) is a ga-jillion dollar business and 99.997% of its clintele is composed of women! Moreover,women are FAR MORE susceptable to eating disorders like Anorexia and the like. But what if men start wearing dresses that show off the body? Would society be as intolerant of body imperfection in men as it now is of women? Would men start experiencing the "side effects" mentioned above? Are you ready for that?

Hehe, nice to see others who support this idea. Really, to me men-in-dresses is no different than men-in-skirts, as long as they stick to staying as men while in the dresses (or whatever other types of clothing they may or may not choose to adopt). To me it makes little difference if you are more comfortable in pants, skirts, dresses, pantyhouse, et cetera. But the only way it has a chance of making it into mainstream society as a real choice is for you to stick with your gender while doing it. I have nothing against cross dressers, transsexuals, or transvestites, just to make that clear. Let others do as they wish, as long as it isn't harming someone (including their selves). Don't like then just ignore it. Anyways...

Yes, I'd say that if men started wearing clothing that showed off more of their body or accentuated their best features then people would start to care more about body imperfections. First society would be jumping down their backs, that is if they didn't start to jump down their own backs first. After that they'd either work to remove or lessen the imperfections, or would just go with clothing that didn't bring them to focus as much. Personally I'm ready for that, not a problem. My only problems are a slightly bulging stomach (which will need to be removed before I start cosplaying) and what I consider my yeti legs. I'm grateful that I have red hair, for if I had dark hair my leg hair would bug me substantially more than they do already. As it is, the only problems with it are things like bandaids sticking to it and the fact that socks make the hair (or technically the skin at the base of the hair) hurt if I wear them for too long, such as all day. Anyways, no I don't think I have any major problems that will crop up from wearing more revealing clothing such as a dress or shorter skirt, except for the fact of the clothing itself. The only possible body image problem I could see occurring is if I shave my legs, as it will give people more ammo for an already absurd war against men doing/wearing/liking anything considered feminine.

Sashi... You might find that dresses like that look funny with a hairy chest. Solutions might involve wearing a shirt under the dress, or shaving your chest. By Jumper dress, I meant something you can wear a shirt underneath.

Also, those dresses have many elements considered feminine. The more feminine elements you wear at once, the harder it is to not look like you're trying to impersonate a woman.

Heh, personally I don't like hairy chests, or hairy bodies in general (not counting head hair, and facial hair sometimes can look good too), and luck as it may be, right now the only hair that might show through is a stray hair about two inches diagonally down from my shoulder. I'd be more worried about the hair trail leading from my belly button down, although that would only show through when wearing a skirt and shirt rather than a dress.

True, it is harder to find a balance in dresses than in skirts when trying to keep away from the look of impersonating a woman. That's something I need to look into heavily, although my beliefs on people needing to get over their hangups on assigning a gender to everything and just accepting them as objects will probably sway that some towards 'style' over 'gender impression' when hunting for or designing a dress to wear.

Why not try a Kaftan (if, after all the coments here, you still want to 'risk' a dress?)? They're not a robe,but they are certainly 'gender-free'!

A Kaftan, from my short search of several top hit websites on Google (plus the Wikipedia page) doesn't seem like it'd match my style much, although the female ones I saw, at least on some of them, had far better designs. The first one I found got this response from my sister: "If you were to wear that, you'd look like you were getting ready to be sacrificed to the gods." As for the "risking", I'd say it'd feel close to going out in a skirt the first time, although since I have no experience in either I can only base it on logic coupled with my feelings of the subject and how I think I'd react. While "gender-free" is always a plus, odds are until skirts are accepted as mainstream for guys if you want variety in your skirts you'll invariably pick up something that looks "feminine" at some point in time. I think that if I can live through going out in public in a skirt, a dress would just be the next step after that. Kinda like going from crawling to walking to running, I'd be going from pants to skirts to dresses. And just like with movement, I'd also being doing various amounts of all three when it came to clothing choices, at least once I figure out my comfort zones.

Well, that's all from me. Sorry about the long post or any things I missed or made confusing. I need to visit/post more often to avoid long replies like this... *sigh*

[Departed Member]

A Kaftan, from my short search of several top hit websites on Google (plus the Wikipedia page) doesn't seem like it'd match my style much, although the female ones I saw, at least on some of them, had far better designs. The first one I found got this response from my sister: "If you were to wear that, you'd look like you were getting ready to be sacrificed to the gods." As for the "risking", I'd say it'd feel close to going out in a skirt the first time, although since I have no experience in either I can only base it on logic coupled with my feelings of the subject and how I think I'd react. While "gender-free" is always a plus, odds are until skirts are accepted as mainstream for guys if you want variety in your skirts you'll invariably pick up something that looks "feminine" at some point in time. I think that if I can live through going out in public in a skirt, a dress would just be the next step after that. Kinda like going from crawling to walking to running, I'd be going from pants to skirts to dresses. And just like with movement, I'd also being doing various amounts of all three when it came to clothing choices, at least once I figure out my comfort zones.

Flippin' 'eck! That was one awful Kaftan, you found! I totally agree with your sister! The ones I'm thinking of, are the ones usually decorated with Eastern symbology (dragons, etc.) - extremely colourful, but not usually worn outside the house!

I think you are seriously under-estimating the 'dress effect'. Far from being a simple progression, it is more like crawl/walk/fly, than 'run'! I think only the diametric extremes (very slim or very obese) stand a snowball in hell's chance of 'getting away with' wearing a dress (OK, fine, there's the 'eccentric' few that might - just!).

As an 'on the street' dress-wearing experiment, I've tried one which was basically an 'extended t-shirt' type, ideal you'd have thought. Sad to say, that was the only time I've encountered an adverse reaction. This year, I swopped dress for skirt for the latter part of the Halloween evening, but even then I felt more 'at ease', answering the door, skirted. Amazing how folk just accept/ignore your clothing choice then!:cheer:

[Big and Bashful]

Hi,
I have just realised that a dress type garment has several advantages over trousers or skirts for people who like me have more of a beer keg than a six pack. I am sure I am not alone in thinking that a beer gut hanging over or even covering a waist band is not a pretty sight. The alternative of a high waistband over the top of a gut I find slightly less unpleasant, but it still is not attractive. The traditional kilt improves on this by design, as it hangs from just below the ribs. To me this looks better as it helps to conceal the gut, and makes me look big, rather than fat.
As a dress type garment gives you complete freedom when it comes to the waistline, which can be high, low or completely absent, I think it maybe the answer. In my view for a man to look masculine in a dress, a cinched in waistline would be a mistake as that brings to mind the female form. As men are more columnar in layout I suppose a dress which shows off the columnarosity of the male would work best. But that leads back to more of a robe type garment. I actually quite fancy a set of Gandalf type robes, dignified, warm and good at concealing bodily imperfections.
For a more colourful outfit which didn't look female, how about a bright patterned sarong style lower half, but as part of a dress, with the upper portion of a similar loose design? it might look like a sari, but I think a sari is a wonderful looking garment and don't see why women have a monopoly on them. I have searched on the net but it appears that it is only women that wear them, which to me is a pity.
I remember reading on a website about children's clothing that boys at times had to wear skirts or kilts, which at times were attached to shirts, to make a form of dress. These are just a few thoughts from a fat man with no imagination but maybe they will help to spark off an idea or two.
Sashi, if you haven't got the skills yet to make what you want, if you can draw or paint, why not draw some ideas, scan or photo them and stick them up here. Maybe another member who has mastered the art of clothmongering could work with you to produce a design which others here may even want to try out or buy. Just a thought.

[Bob]

There have been guys on this forum who are into dresses, and they looked quite good. Maybe you could search back for their pictures, or maybe they will come out of the woodwork.

Sashi, I think you need to go down to the store, find some dresses that you initially like, and see how they look on YOU in the dressing room. Theorizing on this forum is no substitute for actual experience of that sort. Looking forward to see what you learn...

[Yonkas]

Again, I say that taking our ideas from Eastern styles such as those found here:

http://www.goodorient.com/Chinese_Long_Gown_C104

My favorite of these is this:
http://www.goodorient.com/Dragon_Icon_Long_Gown_P17226

Would be a good start. Dresses are, after all, modified robes. I think it's bull to say that a man cannot be accepted in a dress-like garment. I have thought of many ways to make a dress for a man, some of which are probably similar to CrFriend's ideas.

The man's body is an inverted triangle, but that doesn't mean the garment should be. Indeed, I would say the best shape on a man is more column-like. However, this does not preclude the man from wearing garments that are more A-Line in shape, though it would have to be subtle.

[Sashi]

Flippin' 'eck! That was one awful Kaftan, you found! I totally agree with your sister! The ones I'm thinking of, are the ones usually decorated with Eastern symbology (dragons, etc.) - extremely colourful, but not usually worn outside the house!

I think you are seriously under-estimating the 'dress effect'. Far from being a simple progression, it is more like crawl/walk/fly, than 'run'! I think only the diametric extremes (very slim or very obese) stand a snowball in hell's chance of 'getting away with' wearing a dress (OK, fine, there's the 'eccentric' few that might - just!).

As an 'on the street' dress-wearing experiment, I've tried one which was basically an 'extended t-shirt' type, ideal you'd have thought. Sad to say, that was the only time I've encountered an adverse reaction. This year, I swopped dress for skirt for the latter part of the Halloween evening, but even then I felt more 'at ease', answering the door, skirted. Amazing how folk just accept/ignore your clothing choice then!:cheer:

Yep, and ironically it was in the top five or so on Google! Eastern things (dragons and whatnot) would be nice, although if I ever have a need to be sacrificed to the gods that outfit would work nicely :rotfl: So why aren't they usually worn outside of the house?

Eh, maybe I am underestimating the 'dress effect' as you call it. I do like that name though :ninjajig: Anyways, if I am that would probably just be my own feelings on the subject and lack of any real world experience with alternative fashions that are causing the underestimation. I do disagree with the part about only the extremes working with dresses, but only as my personal opinion. I could be wrong here, but I could be right as well. Time will tell... speaking of which. Did someone say "eccentric?" I'd say eccentric is my middle name, at least to one degree or the other.

Well, since my interest in dresses has only perked once the idea of wearing skirts as menswear is fine, I don't have enough experience paying attention to them to decide what would be ideal or not, although I bet that will change with time. Sucks that you got an adverse reaction to it, though. "Thou shalt not judge others," although we all do it from time to time. Still, if people would just let you be you, rather than forcing you to be what they want you to be, we wouldn't be having these problems. Of course, then we wouldn't be having these discussions, and therefore wouldn't have met each other. Bleh, thinking about slight variations in the time stream is slightly confusing at best.

In my view for a man to look masculine in a dress, a cinched in waistline would be a mistake as that brings to mind the female form. As men are more columnar in layout I suppose a dress which shows off the columnarosity of the male would work best. But that leads back to more of a robe type garment.

For a more colourful outfit which didn't look female, how about a bright patterned sarong style lower half, but as part of a dress, with the upper portion of a similar loose design? it might look like a sari...

Yeah, you are probably right about the cinched waistline. The columnar layout probably would look like a robe, which then defeats the purpose unless you just can't find the colors/pattern you want in an actual robe. Still, I'm no clothes designer so I could be way off on that.

I remember reading on a website about children's clothing that boys at times had to wear skirts or kilts, which at times were attached to shirts, to make a form of dress. These are just a few thoughts from a fat man with no imagination but maybe they will help to spark off an idea or two.

Sashi, if you haven't got the skills yet to make what you want, if you can draw or paint, why not draw some ideas, scan or photo them and stick them up here. Maybe another member who has mastered the art of clothmongering could work with you to produce a design which others here may even want to try out or buy. Just a thought.

Once I'm able to truly think hard on this, and throw ideas around both here and with my sister, me (or someone else) will probably be able to come up with something, or hopefully even several somethings. I do have some basic skills in drawing, and apparently natural talent to one degree or another, but even if I can't maybe my sister could. That is a good idea though.

There have been guys on this forum who are into dresses, and they looked quite good. Maybe you could search back for their pictures, or maybe they will come out of the woodwork.

Sashi, I think you need to go down to the store, find some dresses that you initially like, and see how they look on YOU in the dressing room. Theorizing on this forum is no substitute for actual experience of that sort. Looking forward to see what you learn...

Hehe, them coming out of the woodwork would be easier on my part, but I'm not against hunting something down. Just too busy at the moment (particularly with my various projects and the Christmas season). Still, at least that gives me a bit more ... hope? Confidence? Yeah, that might be the closest word to my feelings.

Okay, other than my tiredness interfering with my vocabulary, I totally agree with you. Theory only gets you the ideas, but you can't get anything of substance unless you put that theory to the test, eh? Yeah, I guess that is something I need to get out and do. Same thing with skirt hunting, not that I have the money for it at the moment, but it will at least get me started on the task. Won't be able to truly head into town until sometime after Christmas or New Year's though, partly due to the freeways being shut down every so often due to the snowstorm that has hit this area. Still, soon I can try it, and I'll definitely post up what I learn.

Again, I say that taking our ideas from Eastern styles such as those found here:

http://www.goodorient.com/Chinese_Long_Gown_C104

My favorite of these is this:
http://www.goodorient.com/Dragon_Icon_Long_Gown_P17226

Would be a good start. Dresses are, after all, modified robes. I think it's bull to say that a man cannot be accepted in a dress-like garment. I have thought of many ways to make a dress for a man, some of which are probably similar to CrFriend's ideas.

The man's body is an inverted triangle, but that doesn't mean the garment should be. Indeed, I would say the best shape on a man is more column-like. However, this does not preclude the man from wearing garments that are more A-Line in shape, though it would have to be subtle.

Ah, now there are some interesting... robe thingies. Long gowns I guess they are calling those. Anyways, while that blue one you linked to doesn't sync up with me there are several on that page that do. They would add up in cost pretty fast though. I don't know pricing on clothing much though, so I have no idea what a dress would cost in comparison. Is it just me, or is clothing really expensive? Probably just me... I would like to get a few of those though, so thanks for the link!

Column-like could work, although it still feels more robe-like than dress-like in my mind for some reason or another. If I'm interpreting A-Line properly, than that is probably exactly something I would love to try at one point. Still, robe-like would be a definite start, or maybe one of several points of starting that could be tried simultaneously.

[kiltair]

Hi,

Interesting thread. It's quite easy to make a men's skirt, but a men's dress requires much more thought. It's a fine line between looking feminine and looking ethnical (although I feel the latter is better than the former).

I've created several dresses, pictures are on my website at:
http://users.pandora.be/jbruyndonckx/janAlbum.html

Wearing a dress feels very different from wearing a skirt. Because there's nothing 'attached' to the waist, a dress feels much more comfortable. In summer, it's a great pleasure. I often wear an arabic kaftan then, but my wife doesn't like me wearing it outside.

The dresses I made emphasize masculinity by their cut. The cut is straight, with just a little waistline and then with a bit of A-line. (Of course, no room is foreseen for breasts). Then I add details like a long metal zipper, and extra stitches on the shoulders, which one typically wouldn't find on a women's dress. The material is also important: I chose dark colors: grey, brown, black.

Making a dress is technically a bit more difficult than making skirts. I start from a good pattern for a t-shirt, and then make it longer. During the stitching, I have often try it on, to make sure it fits.

Hope it helps, let me know if you have more questions,
Greetings and a Happy Christmas and New Year,

Jan

[davereporter]

Having made several dresses for the women in my life I find them a pain to fit even for a woman. I have been learning sewing now for over 18 months (nothing compared to others I know) and I can assure you that modifying a pattern as drastically as turning a dress into something for a man is not a trivial exercise. Some here on the site may be able to help you here but from my understanding you would need to do the following;
1) The neckline would need to be completely redone either to a polo neck or more like a skirt front. A box or plunging neckline would only enhance your (presumably lack of) boobs - it would look out of place and you would have nothing to fill the top of the dress with so it would hang rather badly.
2) You would not sew the darts under the breast - they are there to enhance the breasts - refer point 1
3) Depending on your shape you would probably not taper the waist and if you have a bit of a gut, you may need to let the waist out a bit. Cut at least one or two sizes larger and fit carefully - don't understand what I mean? Then find a good seamstress or sewing teacher to help because fitting is critical and can be difficult. It is amazing what an inch or two can do for the look.
4) With commercial dresses (and patterns) you would probably find that the chest and the bottom are out of proportion for a man. For example an (Australian) size 16 dress is designed for a 34" underbreast and 41" breast with a 36" waist and up to 46" bottom. Unless you are large you probably don't have a 46" bottom but you would need to be fairly small to have a 34" chest (particular if you are fit or work out). Then there is that extra 7" of non-existent breast to deal with. Major fitting and modifications required here my friend.
5) Most dresses tend to be flowing. Would you feel comfortable in a long flowing garment? The other option is the ball gown look which emphasises any bulge whatsoever. Only the thinnest girls can pull that look off well and us guys have a lump right in front which the girls don't. That will "stick out" if the dress is too well fitted (particularly if you find someone attractive)

I have seen a guy with a long beard and stick wearing an Indian style robe and he looks good but about 2,000 years out of place. You will look historical unless you can come up with some new design that has never been seen before.

Personally I would be afraid of wearing that kaftan in case the local mental health authorities bring you back in. It kind'a looks like something you would wear in an asylum.

At this stage, I have no desire to wear a dress because I cannot see how it can be done without looking historical or hysterical.

However I am open to be proven wrong and I know that some guys can and do wear dresses and somehow pull that look off.

My $0.02

Dave

[Sashi]

First, I must say this as both a heavy internet user and a web designer. GACK! Nooo, not the Javascript popups!!! Okay, with that out of the way...

You have some nice designs there kiltair. Not all of them would work with my tastes, but most of them are still quite nice to me.

To davereporter, I don't see why a flowing piece of clothing would be uncomfortable. Now, I could be wrong, and I can say it wouldn't be for everyone, but I have a feeling that it won't be a massive problem for me. I do know that the extremely different feeling of wearing a dress would take some getting used to. If I couldn't get used to it, then it most likely wouldn't be for me, but it can't hurt to try and I'll never know until then.

Well, I definitely don't want to look like a came out of a history book... well, maybe a few of the clothing styles, but generally no I don't want to look like I'm several millennia too late for the fashion. Maybe you will have to design something never seen before, or maybe not. Has there been any serious and major attempts for mainstream dresses for men? If not, then maybe someone needs to change that, eh? Personally, I'd say that there is some way to design a men's dress. It's just a matter of find the right design, which will take people with imagination and probably at least a bit of knowledge about clothing design, and of course having the person be at least supportive of the idea of a men's dress.

Meh, I need to start up a series of searches to get some ideas. At the very least, having this topic here gets ideas flowing around. You know, it just hit me but if I'm not mistaken all the dress-like idea here have been ankle length, right? How about knee-length? Or am I just forgetting about one that was already posted or discussed? Okay, well I need to get to bed so that'll be all for now. I definitely appreciate all the posts here though, so keep 'em coming!

[kiltair]

Hi,

As a start, have a look at the 'dresses' the Crusaders wore over their armor (I don't mean the heave breastplates but the metal ringlets, what's the name?).
Remove the big cross, and use a contemporary fabric.

Years ago I found an interesting grey woolen fabric at a sale, and I used it to make the 'dress' in the attachment. To my surprise, many people find it the best item I've made so far...

Greetings,

Jan

ps. There's no reason why the dress shouldn't be flowing. I would make the dress fitting above the waist, and then induce a A-line below. The only 'problem', is that it's not difficult making an A-lined skirt with say 8 panels, but in the dress the seams have either to end at the waist (ugly!) or continue all the way to the top.

ps2. I've been pondering too about making a knee-length dress, but my wife doesn't think it would look good. Maybe I should just try it... I does look good for the Romans and the Greeks..

[Big and Bashful]

Hi,

As a start, have a look at the 'dresses' the Crusaders wore over their armor (I don't mean the heave breastplates but the metal ringlets, what's the name?).

Isn't chain mail rather heavy? probably chafes a bit as well.

[ChristopherJ]

kiltair said:
I've created several dresses, pictures are on my website at:

I think a lot of those designs are really good. I would not wear many of them - as I prefer quite short skirts - but to my eyes most of those on your website are very good looking. I mean the skirts and dresses - not you!