What makes a skirt masculine?

[JohnH]

I don't worry if a garment is feminine or masculine. The question is does it look good on the wearer? If yes, then end of discussion!

After all women don't worry too much about garments looking too masculine on them. Only men have to be so fragile in their egos to worry so much about something looking too feminine.

John

Well said,mate!But there is a reason for that...boys are brought up in machismo,while women do not have similar philosophy to damage them in terms of expression.Machismo theory is connected and bonded to heterosexuality,that is why it is easier for gays not to look...what was called...masculine.

That does not explain why there is a higher percentage of crossdressing males that are heterosexual than the general male population. And then there are homosexuals that cannot stand the sight of anything feminine.

Girls are not raised with the notion of being "en feminine" to be bonded to heterosexuality.

Boys used to wear dresses on up to 6 years of age before about the 1940's. And back then the percentage of homosexuals was no higher if as high as it is now. In fact, a lot of boys used to have long hair and dresses during their childhoods in the 19th century.

As far as I am concerned this stupid raising boys "in machismo" could be eliminated without any harm.

John

[Gmerc]

Post deleted

[Milfmog]

I've been thinking about this since I came across this discussion. Sadly, my answer is not eloquently argued or thought out in great detail but as a bit of an unreconstructed hairy bloke who likes wearing skirts, I think the answer to 'What makes a skirt masculine?' is, for me, I do.

Graham

I'm right there with you Graham, what makes a skirt masculine is "the filling"; in my case that's six foot three of bearded attitude

Have fun,


Ian.

[Since1982]

Liam, I'll let the others answer your pertinent questions. I have only one thing to say. Unless we are long time friends, you will refer to me and others like me as MEN, not boys. I passed out of boyhood at age 18, 51 years ago.

[SkirtedViking]

John[/quote]

That does not explain why there is a higher percentage of crossdressing males that are heterosexual than the general male population. And then there are homosexuals that cannot stand the sight of anything feminine.

Girls are not raised with the notion of being "en feminine" to be bonded to heterosexuality.

Boys used to wear dresses on up to 6 years of age before about the 1940's. And back then the percentage of homosexuals was no higher if as high as it is now. In fact, a lot of boys used to have long hair and dresses during their childhoods in the 19th century.

As far as I am concerned this stupid raising boys "in machismo" could be eliminated without any harm.

John[/quote]
How many of so called crossdressers that are heterosexual are public - not many.They are ashamed and hide it due to machismo.I am not a fan of CD/TV culture due to many reasons which is not necessary to share now.Public transvestites or female impersonators as I call them are found usually at gay bars and etc. being openly gay makes them at ease to expose themselves on the outside . Being feminine indicates that they are gay...that is why the masculinity philosophy is so strong.Some gays may not be feminine but sure they won't react against a guy in a skirt or whatever in the way as macho typical heterosexual male would.Mock and if possible abuse the skirted guy to defend your heterosexuality and masculinity.However, being able to be a guy and have equal gender rights of self expression is what freestylers aim in my opinion.The heroism is that no matter society and its prejudices we make our stance.The machismo won't be eliminated until women want that and that is unlikely because they do not have reasons to lose their gender advantage.Do not tell me that is is up to us only, do not be naive - we are just a few compared to the mass.The mass is being brought up in machismo...end of story...

[kingfish]

I've been thinking about this since I came across this discussion. Sadly, my answer is not eloquently argued or thought out in great detail but as a bit of an unreconstructed hairy bloke who likes wearing skirts, I think the answer to 'What makes a skirt masculine?' is, for me, I do.

Graham

I'm right there with you Graham, what makes a skirt masculine is "the filling"; in my case that's six foot three of bearded attitude

Have fun,


Ian.

Hear! Hear!
It is ultimately what fills the skirt (or any garment for that matter) that bestows masculinity or femininity.

The most famous example of this is the kilt. Whether part of the black watch regimental uniform or some catholic school girl's uniform, it is still essentially the same garment. And especially in this case, who can say that it displays a gender association that is opposite of the wearer.

[Gmerc]

POst deleted

[Since1982]

John H said: As far as I am concerned this stupid raising boys "in machismo" could be eliminated without any harm.

That's great, John, let's de-masculate our males, and then when Osama Bin Laden sends a million very machismo fighting men here to take over our weak males, you can help by pointing out all the weakest ones. I can see you telling him which ones to start on now...Osama, just don't worry, they've all been trained how to fight without hitting or touching. You can tell Osama about our new "no touch sports" which, by the way is actually a real thing in today's America. I can just imagine the future "Super Bowl," no touching allowed. You can kick the ball, but not too hard, you might hurt your toes.
How about having nice "NO Touch" boxing matches. The fighters dance around the ring feinting and leaping until halftime, at which time "Helpers" must circulate through the crowd of 57 paid customers who paid a million dollars each to support the Football teams sleeping along the sidelines and wake them up.

When everyone leaves, it gets more exciting than the game was, the real fighting starts when no one can get their cars out of the parking lot without waking their sleeping wives.

When folks get too sick or old, the Government just turns everyone into "Soylent Green".
In the words of the Actor Charlton Heston in the movie of the same name, "Soylent Green is people"....We're eating ourselves because of the laws against killing animals for food, too machismo!

Everything I've referred to here is from various movies and suggestions of scientists of the last 40 years.

If you think it's gonna get better before it gets worse as we run out of fuel. It Aint!

[straightfairy]

Lots of stuff and nonsense

Oh really, get serious.
There's a big difference between the emasculation of boys and men as you described and the raising of boys into men without the machismo that John H described.
There's plenty of ways of being a real man without going into the machismo world of working hard, playing hard, drinking hard and fighting hard etc. The first two are fine, but we don't need the 2nd two to be a 'real man'.

[Jack Williams]

See below.

[Jack Williams]

Lots of stuff and nonsense

Oh really, get serious.
There's a big difference between the emasculation of boys and men as you described and the raising of boys into men without the machismo that John H described.
There's plenty of ways of being a real man without going into the machismo world of working hard, playing hard, drinking hard and fighting hard etc. The first two are fine, but we don't need the 2nd two to be a 'real man'.

Too right mate! I'm right behind you every time.
Jack.

[SkirtedViking]

Lots of stuff and nonsense

Oh really, get serious.
There's a big difference between the emasculation of boys and men as you described and the raising of boys into men without the machismo that John H described.
There's plenty of ways of being a real man without going into the machismo world of working hard, playing hard, drinking hard and fighting hard etc. The first two are fine, but we don't need the 2nd two to be a 'real man'.

I double that statement of yours,straightfairy.

[JohnH]

I agree that men need to work hard, play hard, and stand up for their families as head of the house and to defend this country. So I can accept there is a necessary quality of fighting hard for defense. In the 19th century a lot of boys were raised wearing dresses and with long hair - I have seen a Western where they talk about a "child" instead of a "girl" who has long hair and a dress. They grew up just fine as men.

What I am against is the narrow constraints of how men can dress and groom themselves. We are suffering from the "dumbed-down" fashions inflicted on men starting with the French Revolution and Industrialization. In the French Revolution fancy men's clothes were deemed part of the aristocracy.

We have dumb "man-up" lite beer commercials where insecure "men" feel as if they "man-up" by drinking that swill.

John

[Since1982]

JohnH said: In the 19th century a lot of boys were raised wearing dresses and with long hair - I have seen a Western where they talk about a "child" instead of a "girl" who has long hair and a dress. They grew up just fine as men.

I usually don't agree with JohnH on most of what he says, but he's absolutely correct on this statement, just not for the correct reason. In the 19th century and the first 20 years of the 20th century young men until the age of 5 or so, wore long hair because having it cut weekly was a habit of the rich, and wearing dresses and "girly" clothing was normal for boys because unlike today, they had no way to predict what sex a baby in the womb was going to be, so all babies wore "hand me downs" from previous female (the largest percentage of which died at birth or within 5 years of birth) babies. Only the very rich could buy NEW clothes for new babies at birth. I have lots of pictures of ME wearing dresses prior to the age of 5 from female children my mother had who died before the age of 6. These were known as "hand me downs", and some societies still hand down clothing to new babies from either grown up or dead children. This is commonplace in India and most of Asia. Research it, you'll see what I mean. Hand me down dresses and other girls clothes were much easier to "hand me down" to boys AND girls because of not having the restrictions of trousers and shirts. IE: the difference between wearing a tent or a bunch of tubes.

In my case, I was the 7th child born to my parents and the ONLY one that lived beyond age 8. In the 1940's people didn't know that some blood types were not compatible with all other blood types. My Father was A+ and my mother was ORH- both of which were completely UNcompatible with each other. 99% of all children of that pairing died at birth. My parents tried 6 times before me and 2 times after me. The longest lived, other than me, was the 4th child, a girl who died at age 8. I wore her clothes until I outgrew them at age 10. My mother home schooled me. So what I wore was immaterial to anyone else.

[skirts4me]

I'd never heard of a non-tartan kilt in the past.

Hello Martin.
An Irish kilt is one solid colour. Not sure if they have more than one colour but I've seen one in "burnt orange." I suppose that figures with the national colours. I shall ask my Irish parish priest when I see him next.