How to normalise skirts for men: proactively reduce the barrier to entry

[robehickman]

I like a some flair from my waist in a skirt, since if you do not get enough room in the skirt around your hips, the lump that a man has, tends to show, and some women do not like too see such lumps in a skirt front.

Flare can be designed in a way that looks much more natural on a male body, though. The flare should be linear or close to it, not strongly curved. Kilts have such a flare, and someone shared a picture of an A-line skirt earlier in the thread that is properly shaped for a male body.

[Grok]

I like a some flair from my waist in a skirt, since if you do not get enough room in the skirt around your hips, the lump that a man has, tends to show, and some women do not like too see such lumps in a skirt front.

Yeah, for MIS to become normalized, we not only need to persuade individual men to try skirts, but also convince the general public that MIS is respectable.

[GerdG]

Yes, the kilt does not help us to escape frm the Man Box. Skirts are the only way out of the Man Box!

Jamie, while I, like every other ‘normal’ human being, recognise, accept, understand, and support the need for some men or women to have other boxes than the traditional man and woman ones, I’m perfectly fine with being a man and being in my man box.

This thread is about normalising men wearing skirts.
And shall men in skirts ever become normal, normalised or mainstream, it needs more than the small group of men who want to escape from the man box.
The same was the case when women adopted trousers. They were ‘normal women, wives and mothers = counting for 90-95% of all women, being satisfied with being women and regarded as women and belonging to the woman box.
Had only women preferring to be men, or to be something else, or something in between, wanted to wear trousers, women, except for the very, very few, would, to this day, have remained in skirts and dresses. They didn't want to wear their husbands' trousers; they wanted their own trousers. They got their own trousers. And they wore them.
To normalise men in skirts, a critical mass of men, belonging to and happy with their man box, must want to and dare to wear skirts.

Therefore, I believe in the old Braveheart concept, which some here might remember: men in manly, unbifurcated garments, i.e., kilts, man skirts, and – by design and fabric- 'manly' skirts, even if positioned for women, as a must for normalising men in skirts.

That said, men can wear whatever they want. They can be crossdressers, transpersons or whatever. It is OK with me. But they don't sell tickets to the project of normalising men in skirts.

[TonautBrom]

I find the unalloyed contempt expressed by some for anyone choosing to wear less flamboyant skirts to be frankly insulting.

[Grok]

Example of a dress like garment on a man.

[Barleymower]

Example of a dress like garment on a man.

What happened to Ron? Ron was definetly a character

[Grok]

BTW, I believe that Ron was borrowing from the Man Box of another culture.

[Mouse]

I find the unalloyed contempt expressed by some for anyone choosing to wear less flamboyant skirts to be frankly insulting.

I am not sure whether you are referring to something I have posted. But as a member that often dresses in flamboyant skirts, I would like to say that all men should dress entity as they wish in whatever skirt they like. I apologise if I have said anything that is "unalloyed contempt" or inferred it.

[STEVIE]

BTW, I believe that Ron was borrowing from the Man Box of another culture.

Ron is a devotee of the kaftan and a definite "character".
The kaftan apparently, was an ancient Mesopotamian robe and unisex too, so they were ahead of us.
Normalising skirts for men has to be about credibility and being believable, but in my opinion the strictures of the "man box" render that moot at best and futile at worst.
I also believe that escaping the "box" has nothing to do with emasculating men, but everything to do with a more realistic definition of masculinity.
The conditions which led to women in trousers and the cause of men in skirts cannot be realistically compared, chalk and cheese!
Subdued or flamboyant in your choices, what matters is that you are honest with others and true to yourself.
Maybe, someday there won't be boxes, just people!
In my time in the cafe, there have been many who have come and gone and they were all unique characters.
Not much different from the current crop really!
Steve.

[LiuBang]

As things stand, the barrier to entry for men who may consider adding skirts / skirted garments to their wardrobe is pretty high, due to many factors:

• Lack of garment availability. Because they were designed in the mould of woman's fashion, many skirts available have visual designs that are way outside of the norm for what most men are accustomed to wearing. This factor applies to fabric, prints, and visual ornamentation. The shaping of these garments also is not ideal in that they are designed to accommodate a notable difference in waist to hip measurement. On top of that, many skirts intentionally add bulk to the hips. Woman’s garment sizing systems are also needlessly complex and confusing.
• Styling difficulties. A lot of existing menswear upper garments don't pair well with skirts, meaning that the default outfits that first timers will end up with, look proportionally awkward by default. Men are not typically taught how to balance visual proportions in an outfit.

I disagree! I own a knee-length navy blue straight-ish skirt, made of similar material to athletic shorts. It blended in so well with my regular unisex T-shirt and guy's shoes that my friend did not even realize I was wearing a skirt until I pointed it out to him. I also have a twill, light tan midi skirt with pockets, and it goes perfectly well with a guy's polo shirt. It really is styled just like cargo shorts, except no inseam!

And women wear unisex T-shirts/polo shirts with skirts all the time.

[Faldaguy]

As things stand, the barrier to entry for men who may consider adding skirts / skirted garments to their wardrobe is pretty high, due to many factors:

• Lack of garment availability. Because they were designed in the mould of woman's fashion, many skirts available have visual designs that are way outside of the norm for what most men are accustomed to wearing. This factor applies to fabric, prints, and visual ornamentation. The shaping of these garments also is not ideal in that they are designed to accommodate a notable difference in waist to hip measurement. On top of that, many skirts intentionally add bulk to the hips. Woman’s garment sizing systems are also needlessly complex and confusing.
• Styling difficulties. A lot of existing menswear upper garments don't pair well with skirts, meaning that the default outfits that first timers will end up with, look proportionally awkward by default. Men are not typically taught how to balance visual proportions in an outfit.

I disagree! I own a knee-length navy blue straight-ish skirt, made of similar material to athletic shorts. It blended in so well with my regular unisex T-shirt and guy's shoes that my friend did not even realize I was wearing a skirt until I pointed it out to him. I also have a twill, light tan midi skirt with pockets, and it goes perfectly well with a guy's polo shirt. It really is styled just like cargo shorts, except no inseam!

And women wear unisex T-shirts/polo shirts with skirts all the time.

LB: This is one of the clearest statements attesting to skirts -- of ANY style, that can and do work for some men, and some women. It is all people who come in different shapes and proportions and they often seek to express a different emphasis with their garments. We do NOT need to be restricted to some nutty notion of "design & style" that in the view of one or a few "looks right". I would suggest for evidence that pretty much ALL of the skirts MIS's are wearing, have come from the 'women's' side of the aisle and were designed for women, or maybe designed only as skirts as a garment. AND of those thousands of skirts we men have been wearing, a bloody good bunch of them work perfectly well. I doubt anyone can wear them all and look like it was tailor made for them.

[robehickman]

And women wear unisex T-shirts/polo shirts with skirts all the time.

It is worthwhile to recognise that the same garment worn by a male and female body is going to look different. Men and women are not the same shape, and fabric will drape over the shape underneath it. Women tend to be wider in the hips and narrower in the shoulders, and this produces a visual line on many people that naturally flows into the flare line of a skirt. This does not produce the same result on men.

I disagree! I own a knee-length navy blue straight-ish skirt, made of similar material to athletic shorts. It blended in so well with my regular unisex T-shirt and guy's shoes that my friend did not even realize I was wearing a skirt until I pointed it out to him. I also have a twill, light tan midi skirt with pockets, and it goes perfectly well with a guy's polo shirt. It really is styled just like cargo shorts, except no inseam!

And women wear unisex T-shirts/polo shirts with skirts all the time.

LB: This is one of the clearest statements attesting to skirts -- of ANY style, that can and do work for some men, and some women. It is all people who come in different shapes and proportions and they often seek to express a different emphasis with their garments. We do NOT need to be restricted to some nutty notion of "design & style" that in the view of one or a few "looks right". I would suggest for evidence that pretty much ALL of the skirts MIS's are wearing, have come from the 'women's' side of the aisle and were designed for women, or maybe designed only as skirts as a garment. AND of those thousands of skirts we men have been wearing, a bloody good bunch of them work perfectly well. I doubt anyone can wear them all and look like it was tailor made for them.

Both of you are completely missing the point I am making.

"I would suggest for evidence that pretty much ALL of the skirts MIS's are wearing, have come from the 'women's' side of the aisle and were designed for women,"

i firmly believe that as long as this remains true, skirts will see no uptake within mainstream male fashion, because the shape of those garments mostly look weird on a male body.

[brionacmkw]

I generally agree with you robehickman but the difficulty is that we need to vote with our feet and show there is a demand there for MIS and that mainly means wearing stuff from the other side of the aisle.

[phathack]

I'm going to stick with my statement that the reason many skirts, other than kilts, look weird on a male body is because we're not used to seeing men in skirts.

[Grok]

I think it must be hard-if you are an entrepreneur-to decide on a design to market. Consider the diversity of skirted rigs that have appeared over the years; consider the diverse preferences expressed by members.

First-will the garment be a skirt, or a dress?

And after you decide which path to take when you reach this fork in the road, you then need to focus on the basic design. Whichever path you choose, there are several different designs to consider, and then length.

Even if you followed the robehickman principles, there would still be several different candidate designs.

During the late 19th century, for women going the other way, choice may have been much simpler. In hindsight, If an entrepreneur had chosen to market a version of blue jeans to women, there would have been a lot of interest in the product. The only other choices were bloomers or culottes.