Stereotypes

Stu · Post by **Stu** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:43 pm

A few months ago, I mentioned on here that I saw a young man I know to be called Keith at a beauty/tanning salon in Leeds wearing the same white "dress" that the female beauticians were wearing. Keith was a very "delicate" sort of young man. He spoke with a very effeminate manner, and his skin and appearance convinced me that he was gay. Yesterday, while in the neighbouring town of Huddersfield, my wife phoned me and asked me to call into Leeds on my way home and buy her some herbal moisturising lotion from the Keith's salon.

I have been to this salon quite a few times, but recognised neither of the two members of staff that I saw - and no sign of Keith. Having been supplied with the wife's potion (sorry, lotion :rolleyes: ) I asked if Keith was working today. I was aghast when told that, not only had Keith moved to London, but that he had married one of the female staff who worked in the same salon! I remember her - she is called Rachel: she is a very tall girl but she is SERIOUSLY pretty!

I am so embarrassed - and ashamed of myself! I have always prided myself that I don't stereotype people. I know, of course, that most gay men do not act or speak in an overtly feminine way. But it never occurred to me that such a feminine male would be entirely straight. Nor did I imagine that such a stunning woman would be attracted to a man like Keith, and who wears the same dresses for work as his female counterparts!!

I am now a humbler and wiser man!

Stu

Bravehearts.us · Post by **Bravehearts.us** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 12:36 am

Stu, you nailed it on the head when you said he was a “"delicate" sort of young man.” “Man” and delicate, gentile, mild, etc. has become almost a paradox. In our world it seems that reaching the status of “Manhood” equates with images of being rough and ready. Even the most open minded of us can sometimes feel guilty that we did not reach that “Manhood” super status; that illusive super hero that no one can become, yet we still hold that image in our mind as something to attain to if we or another male will be “Men”! I never bought into that idea but deep down inside of me there is that awful feeling that sometimes surfaces and that horrible monster who whispers to me in a quiet but brutally painful voice that I did not and do not measure up. I know it’s because I have been conditioned by movies and by other kids as I was growing up. They unknowingly fell into the same trap most of us fall into. But ultimately it is my mind that tells me what to believe. There are all kinds of genuinely good and decent males in the world who are not effeminate (something that is only assigned to females because of association) but they are very gentile, very delicate, very determined and very persecuted.

skirttron · Post by **skirttron** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:49 pm

Yeah, you know if women only had kids by men who like skirts, the violent crime rate would get so low the police force could retire. Marrying rough men, however, usually has the opposite effect, because like creates like.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:33 pm

Now, I probably shouldn't be speaking on this as the one time I went out in a skirt my courage vanished faster than Tickle Me Elmos from store shelves during the holidays.

I spent most of my time growing up getting beat up because I was a big guy who didn't hit back. I watched a thankfully dead racist homophobic drunken $%&# calling my mom every name in the book and rearranging her face. I'm sure if the $%&* weren't dead already it'd kill him to see me, esp. in my floor length silk skirt with my legs shaved and suntan pantyhose on. One could only hope.

That said, I have to wonder if, given the societal pressures, it's actually more a statement of one's masculinity to wear a skirt. There's all the connotations of if you wear something associated with being an article of women's clothing you must want to be female or at least be with another male while dressed as a woman, but you know the people saying that are too cowardly even to explore what it's like to wear one.

I'm reminded of the story of Wayne/Jayne County almost killing Dick Manitoba, the lead singer of the Dictators because he was heckling Wayne during his time onstage and he provoked Wayne who took a microphone stand and used it on Manitoba like he was driving a railroad spike. He wasn't just wearing a skirt though. He was full on in the process of becoming Jayne County. A hard one, no question.

I don't even know if I'm still on topic.

Bravehearts.us · Post by **Bravehearts.us** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:29 am

Scott wrote:Now, I probably shouldn't be speaking on this as the one time I went out in a skirt my courage vanished faster than Tickle Me Elmos from store shelves during the holidays.

I spent most of my time growing up getting beat up because I was a big guy who didn't hit back. I watched a thankfully dead racist homophobic drunken $%&# calling my mom every name in the book and rearranging her face. I'm sure if the $%&* weren't dead already it'd kill him to see me, esp. in my floor length silk skirt with my legs shaved and suntan pantyhose on. One could only hope.

That said, I have to wonder if, given the societal pressures, it's actually more a statement of one's masculinity to wear a skirt. There's all the connotations of if you wear something associated with being an article of women's clothing you must want to be female or at least be with another male while dressed as a woman, but you know the people saying that are too cowardly even to explore what it's like to wear one.

I'm reminded of the story of Wayne/Jayne County almost killing Dick Manitoba, the lead singer of the Dictators because he was heckling Wayne during his time onstage and he provoked Wayne who took a microphone stand and used it on Manitoba like he was driving a railroad spike. He wasn't just wearing a skirt though. He was full on in the process of becoming Jayne County. A hard one, no question.

I don't even know if I'm still on topic.

Those who beat you up were only trying to fulfill that illusive image of manhood. The guy who beat up your Mom wasn’t a man! He was probably very insecure about his manhood and angry because he couldn’t get his freedom from needing to attain to that illusive image also. He had to beat someone up to prove what a “MAN” he was but he was only proving the opposite

Tripp49 · Post by **Tripp49** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:05 am

Lar you are so correct.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:43 pm

though this might be risky as it veers close to the R word, but I've a better defintion, for him and anyone else who falls into that category: "Proof that if there is a higher power, he/she/it failed miserably."

Who's with me on this?

Have a great weekend all.

The Satirist · Post by **The Satirist** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:29 pm

skirttron wrote:Yeah, you know if women only had kids by men who like skirts, the violent crime rate would get so low the police force could retire. Marrying rough men, however, usually has the opposite effect, because like creates like.

Not all of us who wear skirts are soft! Most of us don't change our demeaner at all. We just like the comfort and enjoy being different. I'm still all man no matter what I'm wearing. Crime won't stop because of clothing. The ancient romans ruled the world in skirts. Many historical men in skirts were warriors. (Rough men as you say.) Violence against ones beloved though is a sign of mental illness and not acceptable regardless of clothing or gender.

Raakone · Post by **Raakone** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:04 pm

Amene to that, Amene!

I sometimes wear sarongs (often two of them at once, in the event of a "slippage"). I also sleep in a nightshirt. But do either of these mean I think I'm a woman. Nope. I'm male. xy.

~Ra'akone

Raakone · Post by **Raakone** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:05 pm

Amene to that. I'm male, yet I wear sarongs (often two, one over the other) sometimes, and I sleep in a nightshirt. Yet I am male, xy!

~Ra'akone

Bravehearts.us · Post by **Bravehearts.us** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:22 am

I wear nightshirts around the house, to bed and in the yard in the summer. This has nothing to do with being or wanting to be or look like a female. Even though it may be hard to find them in main stream stores you can get them from places like International Male. If that isn’t a place for men I don’t know what is.

Dick Ackerman · Post by **Dick Ackerman** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:15 pm

Lar:

If you are looking for night shirts try "The Vermont Country Store". They have a catalog and a web site and they have several different styles. All for men. http://www.vermontcountrystore.com or LL bean. http://www.llbean.com

Dick Ackerman

It Takes A Real Man To Wear A Skirt

ziggy_encaoua · Post by **ziggy_encaoua** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:18 pm

Here's something that surprised me Clint Eastwood who's on screen persona has always come over as very masculine etc is a vegan. We all make stereotypes in our mind & then feel silly or guilty about doing so.

Big and Bashful · Post by **Big and Bashful** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:07 pm

For a while now I have been getting my nightshirts from a Canadian company - Nights in White Flannel. Excellent material, soft and warm, and if you want custom products they can do those as well.
Highly recommended!

Charlie · Post by **Charlie** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:18 pm

Men's nightshirts have disappeared from the big shops in Bristol, so I just go into the women department and buy a nightie which is like a big tee shirt. The good bit is that this particular type of nightwear doesn't have sleeves (I don't like sleeves on nightwear). Never undertood why women go to bed almost naked, while men are almost completely covered in pyjamas

Charlie

skirtcafe.org

Stereotypes

Stereotypes

Oh, I'm not sure

Man????

I've a better definition