An objective differance between men's and woman's skirts

[robehickman]

While skirts are 'a tube of fabric' and would thus seem that all skirts are objectively agender - I think it can be said that there are some practical differences between skirts for men and women due to fit.

Women typically have a much more pronounced difference between the circumference of their hips and waist, and straighter 'woman's' skirts are fitted to their body shape using 'darts' at the hip and waist. Darts are a sewing technique where triangles of fabric are removed to turn a tube into a cone.

Obviously different people have different bodies, and when clothing was made to fit the person, the darts would be adjusted to fit the person. Nowadays this is probably solved by women with 'try everything in the store and hope something fits'.

But men's bodies are typically much more 'parallel', and thus a skirt with darts probably won't fit most men well without adjustment, and can be said to be a 'woman's' skirt. Men's skirts can thus be identified due to the lack of darts (yes, there are some male people with more 'feminine' bodies, and this wouldn't apply in that case).

Some kinds of skirts can be considered 'unisex' with regard to fit because they have a very strong flare angle that will clear any kind of hip (a-lines with strong flare, circle skirts, many kinds of gathered skirt), or skirts made out of stretchy fabric. Weather a given garment looks good on a given person is a different matter.

Darts can be added / removed pretty easily in most cases, so waist and hip fit can be adjusted.

Some men don't have a 'waist', and would then need to rely on a belt or suspenders to hold up a skirt, which they presumably also would require with trousers or shorts.

Has anyone encountered issues with or have any thoughts on the above factors?

[STEVIE]

RH,
What you describe here is differences between garments, their styles and design features.
Any tubular piece of fabric around any human being, is objectively speaking, a skirt.
The sex or gender of the body that it is covering is really irrelevant to that basic fact.
Skirts vary, bodies vary even more.
Tweeks and alterations to garments to suit a given body change nothing in terms of the who is wearing the thing.
The key factors are subjective, and that is based on two premises, aesthetics and attitude.
Does it look good, does it make the wearer feel good?
Answer positively, and there is no objective difference to anything!
Steve.

[denimini]

The only difference I detect is that most skirts marketed for men are knee length, black and heavy looking, which don't appeal to me. I think that all my skirts have been marketed for women and most fit well with many fitting perfectly.
There are many body shapes withing a gender.

[robehickman]

The point I was raising was just that the way that fit in manufactured clothing has been addressed is through the 'man' / 'woman' distinction, and yes I agree that this is a poor way of classifying things due to body types. If men's skirts were to become a 'thing', fit at the waist is something that would need to be considered.

It would not be difficult to address just by having a few options with graduations in waist dart strength in straighter skirts where this actually matters.

[Mouse]

All my skirts fit me at the waist and then hang as they please. Some are elastic and cling a bit on the way down, but I don't feel any I have bought from the other side of the shop fit badly on me. Of course you may all be laughing and pointing out skirts on my pics pages behind my back.....

[STEVIE]

It would not be difficult to address just by having a few options with graduations in waist dart strength in straighter skirts where this actually matters.

These options all add to the cost of production RH.
Men's skirts are a "thing", just an exceptionally insignificant one in the scheme of much bigger things, ie profit and loss.
If, not when, there is a significant demand from men for menswear skirts, maybe?
Until then it just won't happen!
All this has been gone over so many times and in so many ways, it's a hell of a lot easier to take it as it comes.
Expect nothing, don't be disappointed when nothing happens.
Steve.

[robehickman]

My point is a hypothetical thought experiment.

[Mouse]

I have worry that if you succeed in getting men's skirts as a thing, that sells in shops, there will be rails of dull coloured knee length skirts made out of standard material, that men are suppose to wear, and all the interesting skirts in fun colours and materials will still be reserved to the women. I love what I have now, that any skirt, long or short, any colour, is available to buy as long as it hangs around my waist.

[Faldaguy]

I have worry that if you succeed in getting men's skirts as a thing, that sells in shops, there will be rails of dull coloured knee length skirts made out of standard material, that men are suppose to wear, and all the interesting skirts in fun colours and materials will still be reserved to the women. I love what I have now, that any skirt, long or short, any colour, is available to buy as long as it hangs around my waist.

I tend to agree; simple, easy and when enough men start wearing them, THEN the manufacturers can respond with their "improvements" --styling development the way it is for women's wear now. I seriously doubt tweaking fit is going to bring out a new hoard of MIS's.

[Myopic Bookworm]

My point is a hypothetical thought experiment.

I think it's an interesting approach.

One other issue is that body contour garments are rarely satisfactory for male-type people, because they emphasise the crotch.

[robehickman]

My point is a hypothetical thought experiment.

I think it's an interesting approach.

One other issue is that body contour garments are rarely satisfactory for male-type people, because they emphasise the crotch.

True - fuller skirts avoid that problem, and also don't have the same need for waist fitting, so can be unisex with regard to fit.

[Kirbstone]

Yes, It's become pretty-well universal among those of the fairer sex to parade around in tight-fitting thick leggings or tights, as there's no 'problem' with the crotch area. The near-disappearance of skirts from the High Street is a direct result of the proliferation of these tights/leggings. Pity.

However, at any social gathering to celebrate/commemorate, dresses and skirts are brought out of storage and flaunted. Just as well, or the fashion industry would be extinct. They're also vastly easier on the eye.

For men steering away from the kilt/sporran norm, wider cuts are required, starting with A-line. Pencils and body-cons still present a problem for males. That's why I like pleats, myself.

Tom

[Stu]

I don't actually think there needs to be a difference, certainly not when it comes to the garments I like. Loose fitting skirts with elasticated waists work for everyone. I'm a fan of denim skirts with just a bit of stretch, like the Roman ones mentioned before which really ought to be considered and marketed as unisex. If they wanted an exclusively male version, just make them one or two inches shorter, with slightly wider belt loops, deeper pockets and switch the side of the button fastener above the fly. These are just minor tweaks and the skirts fit perfectly well as they are.

[robehickman]

Yes, It's become pretty-well universal among those of the fairer sex to parade around in tight-fitting thick leggings or tights, as there's no 'problem' with the crotch area. The near-disappearance of shirts from the High Street is a direct result of the proliferation of these tights/leggings. Pity.

However, at any social gathering to celebrate/commemorate, dresses and skirts are brought out of storage and flaunted. Just as well, or the fashion industry would be extinct. They're also vastly easier on the eye.

For men steering away from the kilt/sporran norm, wider cuts are required, starting with A-line. Pencils and body-cons still present a problem for males. That's why I like pleats, myself.

Tom

Where men wear leggings its almost always layered with shorts made of chino type material, and to me that completely defeats the point because the design of the majority of men's trousers and shorts are very movement restricting. For me, all 'mainstream' men's clothing is objectively dysfunctional because I sit on the floor most of the time, in a huge array of postures, and mainstream stuff just doesn't allow enough flexibility to splay the legs.

Women have probably settled on leggings because they feel like not wearing anything, and don't constrain movement. Probably men should be less concerned about revealing that they have a bulge in the crotch because women don't seem to care that much about 'camel toe'.

A short 'dress' that covers the crotch, or a short skirt are practical options for men who want to cover that. Actually having a bit of belly fat can be beneficial because it moves a skirt hung from the natural waist forwards enough for the bulge to not be apparent. The bulge can be made nondescript with a few layers of some kind of stiffer fabric.

[DrFishnets]

A short 'dress' that covers the crotch, or a short skirt are practical options for men who want to cover that. Actually having a bit of belly fat can be beneficial because it moves a skirt hung from the natural waist forwards enough for the bulge to not be apparent. The bulge can be made nondescript with a few layers of some kind of stiffer fabric.

That’s what got me into wearing skirts and dresses was that I found wearing leggings very comfortable but I wasn’t wanting my man bulge showing so I spent a lot of time trying to find long t-shirts in the shops but I couldn’t find any. Fortunately, I found what I was looking for but in the women’s department in the form of T-shirt mini dresses. Since then I wear t-shirt mini and midi dresses all the time with black leggings or black tights and pantyhose when going out shopping or for a walk. I too have a bit of a belly so it helps the skirt hide my man bulge. Since then I’ve been extending my skirts and dresses to long skirts and kilts.